Is lamb? Is good!!

George,

Pell has the write to express his personal opinion in a letter to his representive.

I don't wish to profiled by providing too much info. on myself. That said, fifteen years ago, I was the national manager of a functional division of major bank and even advised Bernie Fraser. I was not allowed [actually, I could have ignored the Board and been fired] to make comments on the Economy, because I set interest rates. I would watch Max Walsh try and guess me. In some jobs, one can't just say what one thinks. Same goes for Pell and he can move more than a stock market.

Oliver,
“Pell has the write to express his personal opinion in a letter to his representive.”
Is this all there is to freedom of speech, to write letters to one’s representatives? I know there are countries where you are entitled to your personal opinion as long as it either does not contradict the official line, or you keep it to yourself; you see, I grew up in a Stalinist country.

However, I thought that in Australia bishops (or anybody else for that matter) had not only the right but often also the obligation to speak on matters of public interest, the same as professional economists, political analysts, scientists, medical practitioners, even self-appointed moralists, etc. It is quite a different matter, whether what they say achieved what they intended to achieve, and how many MP-s accepted or ignored their advice.

“In some jobs, one can't just say what one thinks.“
I do not understand the relevance of your example, since Pell, at least to our knowledge, was not reprimanded by his “employer” nor criticised publicly by his colleagues. It is not for us to decide whether he harmed the Catholic Church (I personally think he did but who am I to pontificate on these matters).

Fellow_Human,

Too much halal beer mate... what made you think that I was an Arab or a Christian before coming to Australia?

>>I know you are an Arab Christian, you should have left your political baggage at the customs instead of bringing it in with you.<<

I was neither. Plus I had no political views about Islam before 9/11.

It is when I hold my grand children in my arms that I cry and worry about their future facing an increasingly violent world created by a hateful religion, that knows not love...

The source of that terror is a political system that is hiding behind the thin vales of a religion: Islam.

Your non-muslim neighboors have no intention to ISLAMISE Australia and impose a weird set of Islamic values. (Don't deny it, I hear and watch Islamic sermons and Islamic meetings...)

I see thousnads of angry looking males still flocking to hear the likes of Hillali - filling their brains with ANTI-AUSTRALIAN values... in the name of Allah.

And the likes of you do nothing about it - you must teach the same crap at home.

If not, you would have been more active about stopping the divide and the open Da'wa by your anti-western preachers, and local political leaders.

You follow a violent religion that refuses to change. Look at any country where a Mosque exists - and you will catalogue the violence.

This is 2007 - when is Islam going to change?

The Qur'an and Sunna say "NEVER".

What about you?

You must be very happy to see the divide created by your religion since you always defend its teachings.

Still waiting for your imput on previous posts BTW...

Unless you agree fully with my points.

"I am an Australian muslim and proud to be..."

The problem is not being Australian, or Chinese, French, Burmese or any nationality, or even most religions..

The problem is the "Muslim" part.

FH, You are a Muslim. You certainly love and respect Islam's dear prophet, Muhammad. You probably say "Praise be unto him" after his name.

The problem is that, according to your own writings, this man
killed and Brutally tortured people (Verse 261) http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html

Attacked villages by surprise and let his wen rape the women
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4321

murdered his critics, or blessed the murderers in this vile case: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/038.sat.html#038.4348.

beat his nine year old wife
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127

denegrated women
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301)

And so on... Hundreds and hundreds of immoral things, from every ancient and respected Islamic source. I have not even scratched the surface and the hate and violence in the ahadith and early biographies. Let mne say that the guy had a sense of humor, was an effective leader, and a good general, but somewhat brutal, but about the same as many other ancient personalities.

Worse than these things, however, in my opinion, are the denials and dishonesty of Muslims. The vile deeds are everywhere in Islamic writings.

Yet these things mean nothing to Muslims. Simple, clear facts are ignored.

Tell me, Muslims, according to the Quran, Muslims should crucify and torture people like me and others here that fight Islam (yes arguing against it qualifies) and/or make mischief (a stupid, imprecise concept, to say the least). Do you think me and others here deserve this? Would this make you happy? Or would you care to comment on what would happened to us in a Muslim society?

Hirsi Ali is just being honest about the facts. This is not a crime.
Can you be honest?

Kactus

Coach,

“Plus I had no political views about Islam before 9/11”

Your ignorance is not my problem, militant Islam existed since 1966 and taregted Muslims decades before 9/11. If you are so naïve to believe that it started on 9/11 and targeting Americans then you are suffering an overdose of FoxNews.

Hilali is out of office which I don’t see your mob capable of doing with Pell or Daniel for example (whether you are Catholic or Orthodox). You kiss their hands and beg for their blessings for God sake. Get a grip.

Kaktuz,

To warm you up a bit the question is: if the controversial hadith is true, then why then the message “(Quran) set a benchmark on freeing slaves, women rights (part4), charity, etc..? My findings were as follows:

- Hadith (sayings of the prophet) have a science for collection and verification (you can google the words) and one of the first rules is hadith cannot contradict the Quran or earlier hadith (word of God).
- All of the hadith was collected Most of the hadith was collected 1.5 to 2 centuries after the prophet’s death.
- Most of the controversial hadith came about the 9-10th century AD. The sourcres of these hadith included: Israelites and French missionaries.
- Muslims today only know and use 5% of the hadith. The hadith in circulation is consistent with the prophet and his message: the Quran.
- While hadith is not part of the Islamic faith, its needed to explain things like praying for example, spirituality of the prophet, etc..
You can read more on Islam in the following sources:
www.themodernreligion.com
www.readingislam.com

Back to Hirsi Ali, her personal experience was due to a lot of tribalism and somali culture that she tried to pin on religion. If you visit the BBC world website, you can see comments to this nature by other Muslim Somali females.

Thank you,