Fellow-Human,
1) None of my comments were intended as personal attack & it pains me that they have upset you. It is unfortunate that someone like yourself who I genuinely see a moderate & a good guy is all too often put in a position where they are portrayed as the defender of all that is Islam(ic).

The discussions on OLO are robust and to some, perhaps sometimes irreverent.But any creed which purports to lead/inspire humanity , must be able to answer such criticisms & cope with such satire.

2) Re the heritage question.
{& here I tread wary I may exacerbate the damage I tried to repair, above!}
There is a stream of thought that goes :
Indigenous Egyptian culture perished a millennium ago (& along with it Egypt’s greatness).The culture that exists today is less Egyptian than an imported, imposed culture with foreign roots.
The people who follow this line,also have great pride in their culture & their history.

Fellow_Human,

"I am an Australian muslim and proud to be so.”

I find this statement provocative – it is loaded with intent, you are creating a new value and then impose that value on the rest of us, with conceit.

First: is there such a thing as Australian-Muslim? Australian Christian, Buddhist, Atheist, Aborigine, Arab, or Scott …?

I thought we were ALL Australians, AS LONG AS we respect our laws, and abide to our common Australian values.

How you can consider yourself an Australian – AND proudly be a Muslim too? I am not talking about your right of worship but Politically, Legally, and Socially.

Having an Australian passport, speaking the lingo, and voting – don’t make you Australian – WHEN you secretely and openely harbour allegiance to ANTI-Australian values.

Why do you think the Australian government was trying to review our common values lately?

Answer: the surge of a new set of values (ISLAM) that is incompatible with the common “wealth “ of values.

Read the charter of any Islamic group or school, and you must agree that there is no place for Islam in our liberal democratic society.

So you being an Australian and a Muslim pose a problem for you and/or for Australia.

If you say you have no problem with being both – you are

1. lying to us
2. making a mockery of our Australian values and democratic laws
3. arrogantly ignoring how other people feel or think
4. believing that Islam must overcome and win anyway (Jihad)
5. hoping that Australia will continue to accommodate you and your customary laws
6. hoping that Australia will eventually see the light and become Islamic

Because there is no other way for Islam to survive in Australia unless it can have its own “State” – something that wont happen – (unless you model Aborigines' self-apartheid).

You must be thinking that - for why would you be so persistent in defending your ideologies when you must know that they won’t work in Australia? they never worked anywhere else.

Name one country where Islam is peaceful.

Horus,

No offence is taken you are actually one of few I enjoy interacting with on this forum because you are rational and reasonable.

" But any creed which purports to lead/inspire humanity , must be able to answer such criticisms"
Fully agree, I used to and still do criticise a lot of things about how we do things. Sometimes I get frustrated with the abusive or irrational tones of criticism but I cope with it and move into 'reason land' fairly quickly.

2. Re culture:

I think you just started a debate in its own rights here:-)
My view on culture is this: its a living thing, always evolving through knowledge transfer of sets of habits, values and life styles. Its influenced by social and economical standards and habits.

Nothing really 'perishes' as long as we have the knowledge of what it is and how it fit. The challenge of innovation and adoption have no expiry or use-by-date. As long as we keep the learnings we can innovate even at an individual or immediate communities levels.

Here is an example: in the field of medecine, an Egyptian doctor researched why the male pharaohs used copper bracelets around their left wrists and he decided to 'productise' as a male health and blood pressure product. Few years later its in all shops and pharmacies.
Please forgive the modesty of the example, but it illustrates that anyone can bring any part from any culture (let alone make money out of it). These cultural 'components' like toilets (Egyptian invention) is still living and used till today. People don't call it 'egyptian toilet' but never the less, its used.
But then again you may call me optimistic or too positive.
Thats my thoughts anyway.

Peace,

Coach

I am an Australian humanist and proud to be so.

I don’t find this statement provocative. It is not loaded with intent to create a new value and impose that value on the rest of Australia.

Among my friends are Australian-Muslims, Australian-Christian, Australian-Buddhists, Australian-Atheists, Australian-Aboriginals, Australian-Greeks etc (sometimes they prefer the tags around the other way, but what matter?).

I respect Australian laws. And so do they.

When you say “Having an Australian passport, speaking the lingo, and voting – don’t make you Australian – WHEN you secretely [sic] and openely [sic] harbour allegiance to ANTI-Australian values”, you beg the question not only that their values are anti-Australian, but also that pro-Australian values are universally known and agreed.

You ask: “Why do you think the Australian government was trying to review our common values lately?” Answer: they were (a) distracting attention away from currently unpopular policies; and (b) playing on people’s gullibility that abstract words like ‘Australian values’, ‘choice’, ‘decency’ and ‘unAustralian’ have simple agreed meanings that everyone shares; and (c) whistling up the dogs of fear and prejudice.

If you read David Marr’s book, ‘His Master’s Voice: the Corruption of Public Debate Under Howard’ (Quarterly Essay 2007), you could easily conclude that the Australian Government doesn’t believe in Australian values.

I have done as you suggest: read the charter of an Islamic group or school, and I must say that there is plenty of room for Islam and humanism in our liberal democratic society.

I have no problem with being both Australian and something else and I am NOT:

1. lying to you
2. making a mockery of our Australian values and democratic laws
3. arrogantly ignoring how other people feel or think
4. believing that Islam must overcome and win anyway (Jihad)
5. pessimistic that Australia will continue to accommodate me and my customary laws
6. hoping that Australia will eventually see the light and become Islamic or any other sort of religion, especially one as bigoted and repressive as fundamentalist Christianity.

You demand: “Name one country where Islam is peaceful.” Answer: Australia.

Careful, FrankGol, careful.

>>You demand: “Name one country where Islam is peaceful.” Answer: Australia.<<

You should be aware that there are some fairly significant rabble-rousers on this thread, who would dearly like this not to be true, and will not cease their striving until their wish is fulfilled.

Strangely, the vast majority of them are evangelical Christians, who can't wait to tell you how tolerant and peaceful is their own religion.

White Warlock (on face value)

You SAY the difference between you and those nasty people is you believe in 'liberal values'. Funny though, I don't get any sense in your writing that you are a liberal - neither in what you say nor the tone in which you say it. Liberals don't advocate bombing people in order that they change their religion.

Giving people liberty by bombing them and installing 'our way of life' seems hardly to be working in Iraq. Would you prefer to be living in 'liberated' Iraq or Vietnam which has, as you say, 'missed out on these benefits'?

By the way, did you mean to sign off twice? Which name do you prefer? (Or were you shouting at me in order to get some of the liberal sentiment off our chest?)