The Forum > Article Comments > Ali is pop star of intolerance > Comments
Ali is pop star of intolerance : Comments
By Greg Barns, published 4/6/2007The media should stop lauding Ayaan Hirsi Ali: she makes life more difficult for Muslims wherever she goes.
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Posted by Fellow_Human, Thursday, 14 June 2007 2:36:15 PM
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FH.... Busssssssy... plus I did 2 posts so.. 24hr rule.
I will not go 'scripture for scripture' old son, because that is like asking "Show me where Jesus said 'I am God'" when he never said that once. Is it important? u bet it is. John10:33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Yvonnne... ur a worry... you mentioned about women not being able to own land in 'Christianity' :) err chapter and verse please, funny...I don't recall any such thing. Tell you what though, I can give you chapter and verse for women in the 'PATRIARCHAL' old testament owning land. Priscilla and Acquila sound very equal to me in every reference to them in the New Testament. (do a search) I have to pull the 'culture' card out here Yvonne.. I can show you how the Sha'fi school of Islamic law DOES stipulate female genital mutilation, but I can NOT find any support for the things you mentioned in your previous post in any Christian foundation document. If you had picked on the Church for 'women be silent' or...'women cover your hair' your argument might have legs :) but the things you mentioned.. sorry.. nogo there. F.H. back to you. The important point is the core theology, and that does not depend on the 'number' of verses on any subject, but how the verses which are there relate to the issue. I'll simply repeat "Christianity took the STING out of Slavery" but while some people would probably use the Bible to justify a Green Cheese moon, it always comes back to sound interpretation. Which part of "In Christ,there is no more slave.. free, Jew, Greek etc" do you not understand ? Yvonne, back2u :) please read CAREFULLY Kactuz post about Saffiya, and *think* about that for a while. Just murdered were your: -Husband -Brother -Relatives -Father (previous battle) and the MAN who did it all is going down on your body.... for sex. You don't find this repulsive? Posted by BOAZ_David, Thursday, 14 June 2007 7:33:28 PM
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I think Greg Barns is just a stirrer who writes just to be controversial and get noteriety.Hirsi Ali is a person of deep conviction who has suffered female castration at the hands of a vile religion.
What does Greg Barnes suffer from?I hope it is not contagious. Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 14 June 2007 9:04:19 PM
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Boaz, read my post again carefully and think about it for a while.
Are you saying that Christian Europe did not use the bible as justification for all their laws, trade and government? Or are you saying they got it all wrong for 1950 years because they didn’t have you to interpret the bible correctly? St Tertullian gives a very good description of how Christians viewed women in the past and some still do to this day: "Do you not know that you are each an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil's gateway: You are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: You are the first deserter of the divine law: You are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert even the Son of God had to die." After 1500 years of similar Christian sentiment Martin Luther did not think much of women either: "If they [women] become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth, that's why they are there." Muslim women had been enjoying an almost equal status to men for some 500 years by this time on issues of marriage/divorce, property, inheritance and spirituality. I’ll stick to the NT. The OT is riddled with awfulness re women. Eg; Stonings, double veiling, rape and the offer of a virgin daughter and wife to spare a male guest. Enough violence with or without rape aided and abetted by fathers to confront and shock anybody. The bible does not make a specific declaration about a woman having a right to ownership. Unlike the Qu’ran. Anybody who is interested here is a link: http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_comparison_full.htm Posted by yvonne, Thursday, 14 June 2007 9:52:30 PM
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YVONNE... at last.. well done.. almost.
THIS....time you actually backed up your 'hysteria' :) with some actual quotes and history... for this I totally applaud you! But that commendation only applies to the first half of your post, you went off the rails when you made the same broad 'shotgun' accusations on the OT. without any support. Now.. knowing the OT as well as I do (not an expert, but know it well enough to pick the holes in your words) I immediately saw some huge gaps in the story. You linked 'incidental events' somehow to 'doctrinal position' and that...in hermeneutic terms is an absolute "NO-NO"... ya jest cayn't do it moit. *reaches for the 2 x 4...no.. must.. resist.. cannot ..follow Luther* (grin) I suppose Tertullian and Luther were children of their time, but to be honest, when I read the NT I simply cannot see where they derive their viewpoint from. Now that might be an admission that "I" am a child of MY time.... but still, I feel that an honest reader will not find 'anti' women themes in the NT. Women in Islam ? :) come come.. -There testimony is worth half that of a man -They are a thorn and a trap. -Hell is filled with them. -They are a political convenience.... to be married for the value of their political connections.. etc... You won't find that in the NT. What you WILL find there though is that a man should love with total commitment and sacrifice "As Christ loved the Church" .. that we men should love you women 'As our own bodies'....now.. if Luther and Tertullian missed those verses... it is not my problem:) but it IS theirs. Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 15 June 2007 9:23:46 AM
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Boaz,
“I will not go 'scripture for scripture' old son” You won’t go there because there is not a single reference. You would have quoted us by now if there was any, I examined your scriptures long ago. Since you insist on comparsions mr challenger, examining scripture is important. On the two topics of women and slavery you got two stories: - Islam: God commanded Muslims to free slaves (see above) and give women their rights (all part 4: women). - Your story: for some mysterious reasons in your scripture God tolerated slavery and forgot to mention 50% of his creation (women) except for the 3 infamous statements (does the 50 SHeikel story ring a bell?). You see how fragile the house of glass is? The first attempt to scrutiny and you fell off your chair. People who live in a glass house Boazy are not supposed to cast stones. They either need to stop casting or move to a real house of stone (and still should not cast stones:-) You lost this one. Posted by Fellow_Human, Friday, 15 June 2007 9:58:43 AM
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Kaktuz and Coach attempts to distract won’t work this time.
Still waiting on an answer Boaz…
Yvonne, Logic, Pericles and few other members are witnesses.
If you can’t come back with a response “comparing scripture to scripture” then you have conceded to defeat on slavery.
The question again Mr Challenger: the Quran have a dozen of commands to free slaves (see above), please show me exact references where God commands the same in your scripture.
Boazy? Hello? Anyone there? : -) shall we conclude you conceded to a defeat on the topic of slavery?