If Hirsi Ali is a 'pop star of intolerance', then people like Boazy, coach, kactuz et al are its 'roadies'. You know, the boofheaded and untalented oafs who hang around backstage attempting to share some of the celebrity's 15 minutes of fame.

I've always thought that real roadies are rather a sad species - as indeed are these clowns who are so obsessed with spreading anti-Muslim hatred. Fortunately, like roadies, they are ultimately nobodies outside the very limited confines of their own minds and forums such as this.

'I've always thought that real roadies are rather a sad species - as indeed are these clowns who are so obsessed with spreading anti-Muslim hatred.'

I believe it was Don Chipp who coined the phrase, "Keep the bastards honest".

Indeed, Hirsi Ali and her 'roadies' are doing a sterling job at doing just that.

I hope Hirsi Ali sells more of her books and that the constant open debate within Australian society keeps the religious nutters in their box. Wishy-washy feeble minded appeasement doesn't work in the long run when you're dealing with a religion which promotes right-wing absolutism. Just ask the families affected by the 7/7 attacks on the London Underground.

That's a reasonable offer, TR. I look forward to you finding some juicy quotes for us.

>>appeasement doesn't work in the long run when you're dealing with a religion which promotes right-wing absolutism. Just ask the families affected by the 7/7 attacks on the London Underground<<

But first a comment from Tony Travers, director of the Greater London Group, a research centre at the London School of Economics:

"There is a dogged acceptance that this is just part of life here. After all, we've lived through 30 years of this. Not only the IRA assaults on Harrods or Regent's Park - which led Londoners to speak of a "Christmas bombing campaign" as if it were a regular, seasonal activity - but animal rights activists letting off bombs on Oxford Street, a shoot-out at Libya's embassy, a siege at Iran's and a bomb at Israel's."

Some perspective here, people.

"This sort of thing", i.e. terrorism from a number of sources - including Christians - coupled with events such as the Brixton riots, Notting Hill carnival etc. - has been colouring the cityscape for decades.

Fortunately, the people are relatively sensible, and quite resilient.

Measurably so.

A recent (2006) survey by the Pew Global Attitudes Project found that 63% of non-Muslim Britons have a favourable opinion of Muslims, barely changed from the 2004 figure.

You would expect, would you not, that attitudes might be a little hardened by the experience of 7/7? Apparently not.

Oh, here's another snippet.

"Three of the four bombers had links to the Beeston area of Leeds, where the city's first Asian lord mayor planted a "Tree of Hope" in the park where bomber Shehzad Tanweer played cricket just a few hours before setting off for London 12 months ago." (bbc.co.uk)

What you fail to realize is that they have learned that the only real solution to terrorism is a) peaceful and b) political.

It isn't appeasement, it is common sense.

And I would point out that a city that survived 30 years of IRA bombs probably knows better than an observer from the distant safety of Australia.

'What you fail to realize is that they have learned that the only real solution to terrorism is a) peaceful and b) political.'

Pericles, I fully agree with your statement. There is nothing about it to challenge.

But you have missed the point totally. When I borrowed Don Chipp's word - "bastards" - I meant "bastards". I was not referring to quite and gentle moderates who refuse to mix religion and politics.

I should also remind you that Hirsi Ali's approach is peaceful. The worst she done is write a couple of books and make a film. Yet SHE is the one who requires an armed escort for her own protection!

Then there is that other author, Salman Rushdie. The following reaction to his Knighthood by the Pakistani Government speaks volumes for the religion of Islam and is symptomatic of its intrinsic psychopathology;

....As Pakistani MPs demanded that the award be withdrawn, the Religious Affairs Minister, Mohammad Ejaz-ul-Haq, said on Monday: "The West always wonders about the root cause of terrorism. Such actions are the root cause of it.

"If someone commits suicide bombing to protect the honour of the prophet Muhammad, his act is justified."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/rushdie-knighthood-inflames-pakistan/2007/06/19/1182019118266.html

NO Minister. Blasphemy does NOT justify a suicide bombing attack on Western civilians. You are a complete git.

To be frank Pericles, card carrying atheists and secular humanists like myself are sick a tired of monothesim in all its forms. In response to the above insanity I can only applaud the gentle and peaceful endeavours of Hirsi Ali and Rushdie.

Indeed, we SHOULD applaud those who are brave enough to call Islam to account and back them up with like (peaceful) rhetoric, not shrink away like mealy mouthed cowards.

Now, were's my copy of 'Satanic Verses' which I bought today.......

Fellow-Human,

I have to wait before I can answer your query on the other “online”, however, as you are putting me to so much work, perhaps you can answer these:

Prior to the Crusades, western nobility were virtual barbaric in behaviour - young nobles would power their steeds (generally great draught horses) through baronial dining halls. At the time of the Crusades the pope introduced a “chivalric code” - protection of the poor, women and children, defence of the church etc. However, this code rarely affected most knights.

Only after contact with the chivalry of Islam, did chivalry blossom in the West. Simultaneously, blossomed the art of courtly love. Scholars believe that it was a combination of Ovid’s Ars amatoria, devotion of the Virgin Mary, and Arab mystical philosophy (due to contact with Islam during the Crusades), embodying concepts of love as a delightful disease, demanding of faithful service— characteristic of courtly love during the later Middle Ages. As you know courtly love prescribed the codes of behaviour of ladies and their lovers. The courtly lover existed to serve his lady. His love was invariably adulterous, but unconsummated - (marriage usually a business interest or a power alliance).

I understand that the Islamic tradition of chivalry involved consideration for others, self-sacrifice devotion, the helping of the unfortunate and unprotected, kindness towards all created beings, keeping one's word and self-effacement and commitment to a particular code of etiquette and conventions. This code of chivalry predated Islam; these chevaliers embraced Islam whilst retaining their conventions of chivalry.

- I have an inkling that it was adopted/merged into Islamic Sufism. Can you correct me on this - and if so,
- how widespread was Sufism, and
- what were the other divisions within Islam at the time; and
- from which region did the original chevaliers come?
- Also, can you enlighten me on the Arab mystical philosophy as to the concept of love being a delightful disease?

This Islamic code of Chivalry must have had an enormous impact on the Crusaders - who were not known for sensitivity.

As ever ... peace

Fellow_Human,

I am not Israeli; my mother was Australian, I was French born, baptised and raised Catholic. I left the Church because of profound theological issues which became increasingly demanding as I grew older. They could not be answered by Catholic theologians In fact, in the end, I was told women shouldn’t think of these issues as “their brains were like peas rattling round in a pumpkin”. Quite an profound and erudite reply to my theological dilemma I thought.

Whilst not now Christian, I think the historical character of Christ was insightful and he had important things to say.

You know more about me from above ...

Peace