coach

Wow!

I am now an Islamophiliac! I am a strong supporter of Israel and an opponent of Lowenstein. At least I am not an Islamophobe!

Words fail me.

Ro

I checked the website. All religions have their crazy ideas. I am amazed at the ideas of some Rabbis, and also with Cardinal Pell. Buddhism has its oddities as well.

I judge people on how they behave, I don't care what they believe.

Coach, a divorced woman would do well to sleep with another man before remarrying a husband. It would give her a chance to rethink the idiotic move she was about to make! Besides that, you know jack of the divorce laws.

Of the 3 monotheist religions, Islam is the only one with a reasonable and equitable pronouncement on divorce. For both men AND women. Unlike Christianity or Judaism.

Boaz and Coach, give it a bit of a break with your constant harping about slavery and how women are treated under the Islamic faith.

I'd like to remind you that Christianity is still somewhat touchy in Africa. For some 300 hundred years Christians used the scriptures as support for slavery. Western nations, in Europe and the USA, became very wealthy not through loving Christian compassion of other peoples.

Before enlightenment, when it was no longer necessary to see God as the only arbiter for moral behaviour, political, government and business/trade actions were made with the bible as proof that those actions were justified.

As for women. Where do you guys come off that women's lot was so fantastic under Christianity? Are you guys for real? The improved status of women has nothing to do with Christianity and everything with women themselves speaking up. Know why we can now vote? Or divorce? Or own our own property? Until relatively recently a woman on marriage lost all of her property-it became her husband's. Not so in Islam. It's because of enlightenment that Western women now have a good life. Not because of Christianity.

That is completely different under Islam. Where ever Islam is now, it is still further than Christianity was some 150 years ago. So they don't have that much to catch up on.

Think of how extraordinary it was for Mohammed in his time to declare that women had right to property ownership, inheritance and divorce. Know what it was like to be a woman in the years between 0 and 1900 in Europe? The bible does not give much support to women.

Boaz,

Ok then, since you challenged me on slavery, your funeral : )

- According to Islam, the Quran have more than a dozen of ‘commands to free slaves’ such as inability to fast, using God’sname in vein (wrongful oath) etc..
- Now show me similar references in your scriptures that “commands freeing slaves”. Don’t conclude and philosophise, just compare text to text. Your quote “I don't find slavery advocated, I see it tolerated in the Bible" is not good enough. If you can’t find any, you have to concede that the Quran commands freeing slaves while your scripture does not. And here I will ask Logic and Yvonne to be witnesses since you challenged me.

Marriage,

“the idea of temporary marriage is an Islamic reality”

Marriage in Islam have 2 corners: Intent (intention to be with and raise and family with the chosen person) and announcement (ie 2 witnesses + public announcement). So anything like 'temporary marriage', 'secret marriage' is a disguised adultery that individuals chose to mislead themselves into and commit on their own accor.
Humans fall in love, get married, get divorced, get remarried and a merciful gracious God will accommodate for their needs and not order them to opress their instincts through 'self control'.

Coach,

Boaz is a 60 y.o. 'master missionary' with PHD in Islam Bashing and Masters in Islamic Mis-interpretation (new science invented and patented by Boazy boy:-)
You look like a 'Boaz wannabe' so please watch him and learn you got a long way to go. You also need to leanr a lot about Islam before you can start mis-representing.

Yvonne,

Impressive comment and a razor sharp argument. I wouldn’t like to cross swords with you : - )

Peace

"Migrants from Muslim countries are like migrants from any other society." Except that migrants from nonMuslim countries don't say "Praise be unto him" after the name of a man that murdered, enslaved, lied, tortured, etc. This may, just maybe, explain the problem of Muslim immigration.

Ms Hirsi is only being honest - yet her words do not begin to scratch the surface of the violence in Islam.

I took time off and read all the hadiths and histories of Islam, including Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tabari (30 volumes), Hisham, Kathir, etc. I wonder if Muslims actually read these things. It is a story of diplomacy and genius, and also lust, lies, murder, torture, plunder, slavery, and rape.

Here is a quote from Tabari, Volume XXXI, Biographies of the prophet's Companions, 2453, p.185 - about Muhammad's captive wife:
While the Prophet was lying with Safiyyah Abu Ayyub stayed the night at his door. When he saw the Prophet in the morning he said "God is the Greatest." He had a sword with him; he said to the Prophet "O Messenger of God, this young woman had just been married, and you killed her father, her brother and her husband, so I did not trust her [not to harm] you." The Prophet laughed and said "Good."

He laughed? These murders occurred the night before the "honeymoon." Safiyah's husband was hacked to death in front of her!

I also just finished a study on the attack on Banu Mustaliq, the enslavement of the people and rape of the women. Vile!

But what do you expect when there is this: Quran 5:33 - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Radical Muslims kill, moderates make excuses.
It will get worse.

John Kactuz

Continuing...

"The media should stop lauding Ayaan Hirsi Ali: she makes life more difficult for Muslims wherever she goes."

Yes. Good! Muslims need to take a hard, serious look at Islam. We must make life INTELLECTUALLY difficult for Muslims, for their own good. The problem is that Muslims don't want to think or talk about this. They pretend that the hate and violence in the Quran have nothing to do with the islamic terror we see today. They want to believe that their dear prophet was a great moral man, a "mercy for all mankind".

You cannot fight evil by being nice to people that do evil or support an ideology of terror. This is true of white racism in South Africa and Nazi Germany. This is also true of Islam. We must be honest and demand honesty from others.

The problem now is Political Correctness and multiculturalism that says we cannot be honest about this religion, its writings, its dear leader or what its faithful do where they dominate. We cannot hurt their feelings. Look at the freedoms (or better, the lack thereof) in Islamic societies. Look at the violence. Look at the rights of women and minorities... Where, or where, does this come from? Duhhh.

It is almost impossible to get a Muslim to talk about the hate and violence in the Quran or the vile deeds of their prophet. Here is a sample discussion:
http://www.donaldsensing.com/index.php/2006/10/04/1243

Muslims will say these have nothing to do with Islam. Simple logic says otherwise. For three years I have asked Muslims, including a few here, about these things in the Quran and hadith. Not once have I found a Muslim who is honest about Islam. I cannot even get them to admit that the words "he hit me and caused me pain" in the Traditions might mean the Mohammud was a wife-beater. Now that is a new level of denial. It would be amusing if the we weren't talking about human rights, liberty and dignity.

If Muslims cannot be honest about the simple stuff....
Nothing will change, it will get worse.
John

"Boaz is a 60 y.o. 'master missionary' with PHD in Islam Bashing and Masters in Islamic Mis-interpretation (new science invented and patented by Boazy boy:-)"

So the pressure is up and you ran out of excuses err answers heh?

Forget personal attacks and let's get back to Islam 101.

One does not need a PhD to see the absurdity in Islamic laws and read the books where they are derived from.

Islamic LAW says: a divorced woman CANNOT remarry her husband UNLESS they have been divorced for a minimum of 3 months AND she then MUST marry another male even for ONE NIGHT and consumate the marriage. That stranger could be any certified re-marrying celebrant (the Arabic name escapes me... is it Moharrer?)

It is not a matter of sleeping around or cooling off at her parents home. IT’S THE LAW.

Islam is a legalistic system. No individual freedom exists – especially not to women.

Marriage is a contractual transaction. The girl is passed from her father to the groom as a commodity, a mere package part of the furniture and dowry. She is now UNDER the authority of the husband and no longer can be ordered around by her father and brothers. It's up to the now husband to keep her on track, under his thumb, because women are deficient in all aspects of DIN (religion) and conduct.

In Christianity marriage is a sacred gift from God between ONE man and ONE woman – What God unites NO man can dissolve. That rules out polygamy and divorce (except for infidelity).

So this is a GRAVE INSULT to our civil laws and Women’s rights here in Australia, and so is POLYGAMY that is practiced here under your de facto Islamic laws (the mosque) and the blessing of politicians (votes) and our tax payers money (Centerlink)

If you don't want to touch the real issues with Islam, its fine, but don't play the innocent party.

AS USUAL I am still waiting for your opinions on my previous posts.

Otherwise silence means consent.