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The Forum > Article Comments > Misreported, misconstrued, mistranslated, misunderstood > Comments

Misreported, misconstrued, mistranslated, misunderstood : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 23/2/2007

One can't help but to compare the barrage of abuse faced by the Sheik Taj Al-Din Hilali (perhaps deservedly) with the indifference to Professor Raphael Israeli's offensive remarks.

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Well, yes, Pericles, the rest of that post outlined more of Leviticus, but it's all pretty similar. Basically death, or if you're lucky exile, to anyone who puts their genitals in anything that isn't approved. Including people of the same gender, or women who happen to be menstruating.

I was going to try and finish by pre-empting what I suspect the response would be, but you've gone and pre-empted my pre-empting. Bravo.

The point I was going to add, was that clearly, all these ancient books can be interpreted in a variety of ways - and christians interpreting the Qu'ran tend to do it from a hostile viewpoint - but such a hostile viewpoint can just as easily be extended to the christians.
Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Monday, 12 March 2007 7:24:02 PM
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I’m sorry Irfan but you can’t bring up the Holocaust and then run and hide.

Here’s why. The butchering of the Jewish tribe, the Banu Qurayza by your Prophet;

‘During the night trenches sufficient to contain the dead bodies of the men were dug across the market place of the city. In the morning, Mahomet, himself a spectator of the tragedy, commanded the male captives to be bought forth in companies of five or six at a time. Each company as it came up was made to sit down in a row on the brink of the trench destined for its grave, there beheaded, and the bodies cast therein ….The butchery, begun in the morning, lasted all day, and continued by torchlight till the evening. Having thus drenched the market place with the blood of seven or eight hundred victims, and having given command for the earth to be smoothed over their remains, Mahomet returned from the horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose husband and all her male relatives had just perished in the massacre.’

- Muir, W. ‘The Life of Muhammed’

Of course, while the NAZI’s beat Muhammed in sheer numbers of Jews killed your Prophet beats the NAZI’s in hypocrisy hands down. Even Adolf Hiltler never claimed to be in league with the God of the Universe while hacking heads off. Neither did Hitler hypocritically espouse the supposed compassion, forgiveness and justice of God while engaging in genocide.

It’s all a matter of degree Irfan. Both the NAZI’s and your Prophet engaged in murder. The difference is that Mohammed was better at spin doctoring than Hitler. That is, Mohammed had the 'sense' to legitimise his atrocity by sticking a reference to it in his Holy Book (Sura 33:25). That way the whole sorry event becomes OK because it’s somehow ‘God’s Will’.

No wonder Muslims become so confused when interacting with Jews - Mohammad's example was terrible. .
Posted by TR, Monday, 12 March 2007 7:35:39 PM
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TR Hitler did claim to be in league with god . He mentions how god gave him the mission of the third Reich at the Nuremburg rally and many radio broad casts. He said the German people were blessed by Jesus. He sought the support of the Vatican which was newly installed by the Italian fascists and with Mussolini helped negotiate the Vaticans financial support for the fascist revolution on Spain. Also Hitler called Eastern Europeans heathens on several occasions. The values of Nazism concepts of morality and purity were Christian values taken literally. The confusion for many is Germany was not a dark age state as was parts of Italy and Spain were at that time and as Afghanistan is today. Germany embraced the science of technology in a big way which for a dictatorship is still unusual. Nether the less Nazi Germany was modelled on a theocratic frame work and blue print.
Posted by West, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 9:03:21 AM
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Snappy Tom - as a pencil (savage variety) I am quite happy to be identified as an "it", rather than as him/her.

Anyway I'm going to re-post my question to Irfan.
"Irfan, if there are so many parallels between the treatment of Jews by the Nazis in the 1930s and the treatment of Muslims by the West today, why weren't all of the mosques of America damaged or destroyed in the immediate aftermath of September 11, 2001 and many hundreds of American Muslims slain at the same time?"

Could it be Irfan, that you're sprechen utter crap.
Posted by Savage Pencil, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 9:26:07 AM
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TRTL (and Pericles)

such a list was to be expected mate.. and you asked me to address those points, so I'll try.

1/ Leviticus was addressed to Israel as a state. A holy nation, set apart for God. There role was to bring Salvation and blessing to the world. There is nothing metaphorical or symbolic about those things, which were intended to be carried out exactly as you read.

2/ The important question for us is... "Does the Mosaic law apply to Christians and if so, how ?"

You will, I hope notice an important difference between my list of Islamic issues and your list in Leviticus.

My post showed what unnholy conduct Islam ALLOWS.
Your list showed what unholy conduct is PROHIBITED.

Can you show me where even the Old testament makes prostitution/temporary marriage in any way acceptable ?

Can you show me where the Old Testament specifically allows the sexual use of captive slave girls ? (tread carefully here.. it must STATE the matter clearly not be something you 'conclude' based on what you think is suggested)

Does the Old testament specifically approve of wife beating ?

The Mosaic law included reference to the Covenant with God, which has universal application, AND specific Israelite rules of conduct for the nation at that time. It is the nation being addressed, not mankind as a whole.

When Jesus said "Do you think I have come to change the Law ? I have come to fulfill the law" can I suggest you look at HIM and then observe his behavior in fulfilling that law, it might help you to prune down some of the list you provided.

You see.. in the end it is with the Messiah, Jesus or the man Mohammed that we are confronted with. One brought holiness, the other ... mass killings supervised by himself.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 12:22:09 PM
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Boaz you need proof of god before you can claim anything as holy or unholy. Without previous proof of god the whole holy debate is ugly and dirty.
Posted by West, Tuesday, 13 March 2007 1:41:59 PM
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