West,

I totally disagree with your comment that, "Heat and light are energy which is destroyed through entropy. Energy does not last for ever. While it exists it exists , once it is gone it is gone"

The law of conservation tells us energy (which includes light and heat) is never destroyed, but does last forever, albeit in different forms from time to time.

This phenomenon known as entropy merely causes an energy to be "un-usable".

I'm not debating the existence or otherwise of a spiritual God per se. I am curious scientifically first and foremost.

You argue that a spirit or soul suggests a conscious entity that requires a sensory systems (brain, nerve endings). In computer terms, I think such a sensory system is the computer hardware, whereas the "intelligence" embedded in such a sensory system is the software (programs).

Obviously such a model is far from explaining why human and other animals are different.

Do you have an explanation why human and other animals are different?

Or perhaps you believe all living things are exactly the same, once decomposed completely into basic elements?

GZ if light or energy no longer exists as light or energy then they are in their post existence not light or energy. That is the point. It is like saying the mountain of iron was used to make nails so therefore the following nails are mountains. The same thing goes for a persons personality which some how is supposed to become a ghost/soul/spirit/phantom.

Yes each species of plants and animals are genetically different. Different genetic combinations mean different out comes. What is the difference between bread, tea cake , yeast buns , sponge cake, xmas pudding? Are they equal?

Although the soul is pure conjecture of fantasy to indulge in fantasy , given that the majority of human conceptions naturally abort due to a failure of construction. At certain stages of development many a fetus die with no heart or stomach or brain and some live and are born with out limbs or eyelids or ear drums. By the ghost believers rational then by nature people would be born without a soul. Explain the difference between you and a person who has no soul? Then you can tell us how you know you have a soul and others dont or alternatively why it is impossible to be born without one.

Q: Why is the insect world so cruel? - Oliver

A: "Life is dependent upon devouring other living forms. Something dies that others might live even if you are vegetarian...." - Philo

Comment: My point is that this circumstance does not represent a merciful creation. How living bodies operate and the systems the a posited God are cruel. Contrarily, one can see an non-divine system or the system unfitting a loving god.

West,

1. Whether light may or may not exist as light forever is actually irrelevant. The crux of the matter is an energy exists forever, whether in the form of light or heat.
2. Light can indeed exists forever. Imagine a coherent light that shoots off into the space. Assuming this light beam NEVER enounters any influence from any physical object, it (should) theoretically travels forever as a beam of light.

Still, I gather above is irrelevant to this thread.

I do agree the existence of non-material "things" is no proof that soul or spirit may exist.

I suppose it may well be possible fetus may be borned with no spirit or soul. Perhaps such fetus can never survive, who knows? Do all mentally-disabled children have a spirit/soul? A dangerous moral question that I have no answer for.

However, I have problem accepting that "...the soul is pure conjecture of fantasy...", for the simple reason there is a gulf of difference between humans and non-humans, a difference that science simply cannot explain.

I think genetic differences are mere differences in software programs (in computer terms). The basic "hardware" may actually be identical between human and non-humans. Therefore, in genetic terms, humans and non-humans may be very much alike. In other words, genetic difference may not account for the gulf of difference between humans and non-humans.

I do suspect spirit/soul (or whatever you call it) fills that gap.

But perhaps it is fundamentally essential to first agree on this : "Humans are distinct from non-humans"

( I lack vocabulary to phrase this elegantly but you know what I mean).

GZT,

"...gulf of difference between humans and non-humans, a difference that science simply cannot explain."

-- Neocortex.

[Moreover, the gulf between a bat and human, relates to the bat's impressive in-built radar. Wherein, a bat can fly [we can't ourselves]
around obstacles blind-folded. The gulf between a whale and human, includes the whale's ability to communicate [songs] over thousands of miles, because of its ability to utilise ultra-low frequency sound. A Chimp's muscles are seven times as efficent as ours. An alert dog can learn the sound of its guardian's car transmission [and approach]. A dolphin can hear in 3-D [I have used this example, before, but, think it imformative, now]. An albatross can fly in its sleep.]

--Yes, there are many big gaps between non-human animals and the human animal.

The Law of the Conservation of Energy can be viewed hand-in-hand with the Law of the Conservation of Charge [particle physics]. Positive and negative matter/energy mutually eliminate.

Philo,

Still working on the Soul. I had "the breath of god" [Hebrew] in mind when I mentioned a conduit [body]. That is, why asked about its existence before and after the "Life" of Jesus. The metaphor was life is a lighning rod.

If souls go to a non-dimensional place are they "all" unified into a singularity or remain distinct?

Oliver,

<< Humans are distinct from non-humans >>

What I actually meant as follow:

I regard humans distinct from non-humans in terms of things like intelligence, emotions and language (perhaps a few more attributes). Not because of difference in innate abilities and difference in physical form.

Say, if it is proven that bats exhibit high level of intelligence, emotions and language creativity then perhaps bats are in fact very human-like, even if they look completely different and have in-built radar that humans do not possess.

I suspect it is possible to model a non-human (any animal) completely whereas it is beyond our human ability to model ourselves, due to fundamental human traits (intelligence, emotions and language ability, etc...). This is partly what makes humans so distinct from non-humans.