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The Forum > Article Comments > The nonexistence of the spirit world > Comments

The nonexistence of the spirit world : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 12/2/2007

In the absence of church teaching, ideas about God will always revert to simple monotheism.

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My dear West, contrary to your assertion, your post prove your a willing participant and you do play at the same game. Your like the moth before it is incinerated by the heat of the lamp arguing it has nothing to do with the brightness of the light. I am not a religionists because it requires an either or mentality. It's of the private club milieu. For me there is no difference between Christianity, Islam, or Judaism, Jehovah Witness or Mormonism etc..
Calling me a Christian is like me calling you tolerant. It's meaningless.
I do believe in the human spirit, the individual soul. I believe in it because I have seen it at work. I would never dare to approach anyone on the subject because for me it is very private knowledge. I don't want to make people jealous or envious or angry or anxious for any reason. Not everyone has the capacity to see, to understand. Not everyone can draw equally or speak well in public, or dance as well, or do their maths. We are not all equal. We are all individuals and as individuals deserving of special regard.
You have found your calling. You have found your religion. And you are out working to gather converts. Once you shake off the denial and achieve acceptance of your beliefs, your sermoning will become more potent, full of the fire of your truth. Sing it out loud baby. God is dead. Amen. Gimme an AhhMEN! Who-ya!
5 million years from now the religionists and the anti-religionists will still be trapped with and by the dichotomy of your existence. You are all part and parcel of the same package and are necessary to the whole. You are interdependent and would not exist with out the other.
Posted by aqvarivs, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 2:53:41 PM
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Aqvarivs,

Yes, I did read your post to imply the religions maintained a monopoly on moral values., which I assert these bodies do not. History provides testimony to the immorality of the religions, including Christianity.

Religion has acted as a cohesive organising principle, since, as you say, from primitive times. Herein, the establishment of the first City-States operated on the basis of the Land [owned by God] was administered by priests on behalf of God [c. 4000 BCE]. However, there needs to be a time to take of the training wheels and ride the bike ourselves. A circumstance that has evolved for the past 6,000 years, especially, the least 300 years. Perhaps, we will assign the trainers to the garbage bin, in 100, 500 or 1000 years’ time. Maybe, significantly extended longevity and our knowledge of post-mechanical science will make the belief in an afterlife or magical creation, less sustainable, and, we can transition away from religious post-Shamanism.

True, some knowledge has been stumbled upon. Nonetheless, since The Great Divergence [c.1760], the West has been able to apply rediscovered Greek theory [Episte] to artisan techniques [Techne]. We have learned how to learn.

A have been received by Sells and Co. with anomous, because I am seen to be in “opposition” to their belief systems, which they will not test, even histography. Being in opposition the Light, I must be some malignant Satanic character, working directing a belief system… Good versus Evil. [Sells’ World View]

Instead, I see the Religionist approach to knowledge discovery almost magical thinking, outside the realm of rational methodologies towards, [tentative] “understanding” and “explanation”. A priori posits sustaining Ignorance versus healthy exploration sustaining Knowledge Discovery. [Oliver’s World View]

Else put, I will posit null hypotheses to my beliefs, whereas, Sells, Boaz and Philo do not [regarding religion].

[cont.]
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 4:40:32 PM
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I would do believe in higher powers, e.g., gravity and nuclear binding. Yet, I will maintain these as a positive heuristics, while evidence supports such beliefs. Moreover, it is incumbent upon me to disprove my posit.

Alternatively, Sells, Boaz and Philo will not test their beliefs. Perhaps the more ethereal aspects are remote. Yet, theocrasia and the politico-religionism is testable, through the lenses from history.

West, Keiren and I represent modernity. Sells and Philo represent medievalism. Our thought processes are literally centuries apart.

West, Keiren and I wish to ride the Spirit of Progress [to Knowledge] than the Spirtuality of Retreat [from Knowledge].

Does this matter? At the level of a few individuals, no. At the level of societies, yes.
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 4:52:47 PM
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aqvarivs you either do not understand or you refuse to understand. You go and seek the wizard Oz by all means but dont drag us along with you. If you stopped being defensive and I admit I evoke and at times provoke defensiveness you will see I am saying the Wizard of Oz is not what hes cracked up to be and those relegated to the moral fringe of society are only the witches of the west not the Wicked Witches of the West. Of course god become collatoral damage in such an exchange because hes the magic boasted about by the magician. We all know the rabbit is up the sleeve and not in pre-existance. So click your heels Dorothy , perhaps if you opened your eyes you would see you were always at home and save a perfectly good pair of shoes.

Yes I am intolerant towards fascism.
Posted by West, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 5:49:44 PM
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...the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the
proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and
the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts,
that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...

Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded
unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and
judgments.

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming
of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come
and smite the earth with a curse. Malachi 4

A message/warning/advance notice to you from the Creator.

You may ask why, but then you might have to parse the meaning of sin -- that is,
you might have to consider if you have committed any, a risky and self-challenging
proposition.

And then, if you have gotten this far, you might have to ask if you have
offended anyone, and eventually, you might lead yourself,
by the nose of your thoughts, to the idea that you have offended
a holy God, who is unlike you in standards, yours being lower
(that is, human).

Only then might you begin to understand the reason for God's anger.

God hates sin because it destroys humans, both the sinner and the sinned against.
Posted by Hawaiilawyer, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 6:42:47 PM
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Pt II:

God's word: there are spirit beings which he created, angelos (messengers of God) and demons (fallen angels, no longer messengers).

Those who contest his word do not recognize the reality of spiritual warfare over the souls of men, and therefore are ill or un-equipped to
war with the fallen angels over the souls of men.

These humans are disarmed at the outset, having by their own disbelief, disarmed themselves in the war over their own souls.

The war is over God's standards. The fallen wish for no standards, because an absence of standards is harmful to human beings. Fallen angels therefore uniformly advocate an absence of restraint on human actions. This appeals to most humans, who identify such a lack as "freedom," not recognizing where human action becomes true harm, and when it in fact frees.

Cain acted freely in murdering his brother, but his brother was not thereby freed. Cain destroyed the freedom to enjoy brotherly relations with Abel for the rest of their lives. Cain destroyed his ability to
be a husband, father and grandfather who was not a murderer. He destroyed his capacity to pass on moral standards to his children.
He destroyed his ability to recognize wrong. These are all choices
or freedoms made impossible by his "free" act of murder. See Genesis 4.
Posted by Hawaiilawyer, Wednesday, 7 March 2007 7:09:09 PM
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