mylakhrion,

You said we can't outlaw Islam.

We can't outlaw any system of belief. People are free to think and believe as they want.

But we do outlaw the public expression of certain beliefs. We do, for example, outlaw public expressions of racism. I have heard Imam's preach anti-Jewish sermons.

Can we outlaw that?

I should add that I am not Jewish. I have no axe to grind.

You say no rational person can support a leader like Hilali. Yet he does seem to have his followers. Quite a few of them in fact.

So does Sheik Feiz Mohammed.

See:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21074839-2,00.html

Quote:

"Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior).

"Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."

See also:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/video-nasty-attacks-jews/2007/01/18/1169095908942.html?s_cid=rss_smh

You may say that what Sheik Feiz Mohammed preaches is not "true" Islam. That it is a perversion of Islam. That is certainly what Muslim community spin doctors and well meaning people on the Left will assert.

But is it true?

Do you really know what is taught in madrassahs across the world?

It appears to me that what Sheiks Feiz Mohammed and Hilali preach is in fact a mainstream thread of Islam. Not necessarily the only mainstream thread of Islam but certainly one of the mainstream threads.

Some of what various Imams preach is barely distinguishable from some of the views Hitler expressed. If a Christian pastor expressed those view there would be outrage.

Do we excuse it because it's an Imam?

If Muslim immigrants present a greater "challenge" than most why is it wrong to limit the problem by curtailing future Muslim immigration? There are many suitable immigrants queuing up to get into Australia who, far from being a "challenge," would be a tremendous asset.

Why is it wrong to admit them instead?

If I am wrong in what I say about Islam I shall revise my opinion. But I need proof. Simply repeating endlessly "Islam is a religion of peace" won't do it for me.

Well done Stephany - you had me sucked in there for a while. At least five minutes.

What I don't understand is how these boofheaded ideologies like the fundamentalist forms of Islam and Christianity can somehow recruit otherwise intelligent minds to spin their causes. Like Stephany, for example, not to mention numerous other participants in this forum.

Every time i encounter one of these devious Christian anti-Muslim protestations, I have to marvel at the sheer viscosity of the utterances.

I reckon Stephany's BS rating - based on her/his most recent 'grease' - would have to be at least 20/50.

Slippery argument indeed... :)

The worst form of fundamentalism is humanism which often hide behind 'science' to justify every crime you can think of. Humanism has resulted in many more deaths than all the religous wars put together. That is without counting the murder of the unborn which amounts to millions of lost lives. The religion of humanism produces the most immoral, egotistic people on this planet. Funny that these god haters are often the first to appease Islam and yet hate the teachings of Christ. Strange world.

Me: "...otherwise intelligent minds..."

And then of course there's people like runner (and his coach).

Runner,

Humanism is “a philosophy…a variety of ethical theory and practice that emphasizes reason, scientific inquiry, and human fulfilment in the natural world and often rejects the importance of belief in God.”

Nothing about hatefulness there. No, I can tell you first hand that they appear to “appease Islam and yet hate the teachings of Christ” due to the astounding duplicity of those who should know better. It’s hardly a matter of appeasement - I wouldn’t make concessions to extremist demands from anyone. Rather, the “importance of belief in god” seems counter-productive when you consider these valuable insights...



“The vacuum is now being filled by false religions such as Islam” (along with those other 10 000 false religions)

“the prospect of bloody ethnic fighting is a very real possibility especially if the muslims ever get the numbers to demand a sepratist state like we see in Russia and other countries” (ya reckon?)

“The unsolvable problem was created by the Whitlams, the Frasers and Hawkes” (I wrote to The Sun in 1973 and warned ‘em but did they listen? Nooo)

“An ugly (very ugly) backlash will occur one day against all this multicultural nonsense, pushed by morons sitting high in their ivory towers distanced from reality.” (one day this person will become an adult and maybe even have kids to share this with)

“Muslim boys dont need a wage as they income is derived from narcotics” (the girls, too)

“you are doing us no favours by your presence here and most of us would prefer you not to be. And we do not appreciate being insulted by your so called clerics. They are disgusting racists , if our government had a back bone, they would send them packing.” (aren’t you glad we don’t share a national border with anyone?)


There’s no point my rallying against the extremes of islam - that’s being well taken care of - but what excuse do these clowns have? Seems to me humanists are among the few not taking it personally.

No, Runner. The worst form of fundamentalism is that which encourages bigotry

Bennie, you could be partly wrong about a humanistic hate for Christ.

It is so interesting that as one studies more Greek philosophy, the strong love of the early Jesus remains while the devotion for the Christ well after the Crucifixion is not so inspiring.

Even though still regarding oneself as a humanist, the strong love and sympathy is still felt for those who were given to the lions in the arena by the Romans, but gradually laxes possibly owing to some of the Christians proving even more bloodthirsty than the Romans.

No doubt the Sermon on the Mount and stories like The Good Samaritan told by the young Jesus do fit in well with tales told in Socratic Reasoning.

Guess it is a case of retaining a mixture of Faith and Reason as St Thomas Aquinas was so affected when he wrote his great thesis that later brought on the Age of Reason and the Age of Enlightenment.

To be sure it seems we could all do with some Enlightenment right now.