Mr. Denmore-; "The Indonesian Muslims threw out Suharto to embrace parlimentary Democracy."

The major difference between the Muslims in Indonesia and the Muslims in Australia is that the Muslims in Idonesia are not immigrants so Indonesia does not have the same problems of intergration that Australia faces with the muslims.

If the muslims in Australia fail to intergrate over a number of generations than the prospect of bloody ethnic fighting is a very real possibility especially if the muslims ever get the numbers to demand a sepratist state like we see in Russia and other countries. So the Indonesian situation is different.

Muslims need to go no further than the mirror.We are wise to your claim to victim status and racism.We have offered you freedom,jobs,wealth,social security and you have spat in our faces wanting Sharia Law implemented that destroys the foundations of our society.

There will be no more compromises on our behalf.Muslims most show that they are worthy of living in a free deomcratic society that accepts belief systems that are averse to their own,or suffer the conflict of their origins which they have sought to escape.

Mr. Denmore

Yes look at those democracies to the north. They're wonderful examples as long as your not Christian.

The Howard government nor the Australian people as a whole are doing anything against Muslims or Islam but, trying to understand a culture that would migrate to a place that they so obviously hate.

The Howard government nor the next government nor any government of Australia owes consideration to any portion of Australian society that will not integrate, will not adhere to the responsibilities of their citizenship.

Howard's attempts to "understand" the Muslim community go no further than the message "integrate or leave", which is a lousy, short-sighted solution to a complex issue and one that only makes the problem worse.

It might make you feel better to make blanket statements about Muslims and integration, but this gets us nowhere.

Saeed's original article above recognises there are problems and calls moderate Muslim community leaders to account for not doing more to address the underlying issues.

But our political "leaders" -- if they are true to their rhetoric about the mark of a democracy being respect and tolerance for the views of others even when you don't agree with them -- need to do more than just push the buttons of bigots for political gain.

The fact is that the tiny minority of lunatic extremists using Islam as an excuse to advance a fascist political ideology are more likely to extend their influence if our approach to this issue is just to tell all Muslims that their religion is incompatible with liberal democracy and they should all just "go home".

I'm sorry to have to inform those of you talkback radio listeners and Howardphiles who want mass deportations, but for the vast majority of these people, Australia IS home. They are Australian citizens and most of them under 30 were born here.

As to those who criticised my point about Indonesia's embrace of democracy because "only Muslims live there" need to check their facts. Indonesia is a sprawling nation of 700 million people. While more than 80 per cent of its population is Muslim, it also includes millions of Hindus, Christians, Buddhists and Confucian Chinese.
Most importantly, it is a strictly secular state.

Many thanks to mylakhrion and Mr Denmore for their eminently sensible contributions. To the Islamophobes: venting your xenophobic spleens in forums such as this may make you feel a little less personally inadequate, but do you really think that your comments are likely to improve the integration of Muslims in our society one iota?

Saeed's article seems to me to be a genuine attempt at approaching dialogue, and doesn't gloss over the Australian Muslim community's liability for taking responsibility for their own. However, if such attempts are routinely met with the kinds of bigoted and intemperate rants with which this thread began, then what hope is there for our society.

Mylakhrion is quite correct: what we are experiencing is merely a variation of the well-worn pattern of Australian parochial xenophobia against the latest group of immigrants. Take a chill pill, try a little tolerance and within a generation or so the so-called Muslim problem will be a dim memory.

As I've noted elsewhere, it's often an earlier migrant group who seem to display the greatest antipathy to subsequent arrivals - as our Greek friend exemplifies above.

I'm just waiting for the transference of our xenophobic angst from Muslim immigrants to, say, Sudanese refugees who are beginning to come here in numbers. No doubt some of the most extreme expressions of this will emanate from more integrated Muslim Australians.

It's a veritable Aussie tradition.

A timely and cogent argument, Saeed.

And, predictably, bound to get responses that reflect the shallowness of mind & spirit that keeps this government afloat.