"I wondered what your response may have been to your dad, and your reasons for having to qualify fatherhood in the way that you did."

I suppose I was taken aback by it mainly because my father doesn't really discuss his feelings, and his revelation came after watching a particularly schmaltzy family moment in a Robin Williams film. I qualified fatherhood as I did because I would classify all men that try and provide for their children as being good fathers - those that don't have any interest can be nothing but bad fathers. I know that my own father provides for his family - but given that he rarely acknowledges that it was interesting to hear him give an insight into the responsibility he feels.

"Call me cynical, but I doubt you would do so for motherhood – in your world, abortion is a brave motherly virtue; fathers are somewhat less than coincidental."

Rubbish. You've taken my views and experience entirely out of context. I never said I was brave and I certainly don't equate abortion with maternal virtues - I equate it with the fundamental right of any woman to govern her body. As that is not exclusively tied to motherhood, how could I possibly consider abortion a 'brave motherly virtue'? Fathers aren't coincidental to the matter; hopefully, a woman who has an unexpected pregnancy will also have a partner that she can discuss the matter with although we know that isn't always true. Perhaps they can together decide, taking both their feelings into account, what to do about it. However, if a woman is adament about having an abortion, I'm afraid her partner's wishes don't really come into it because it is her pregnant body in question.

"This would explain your dad’s need to make such a point. No?"

No. My father's views on abortion are identical to mine. I can safely say he considers an unwanted pregnancy to have nothing to do with his idea of fatherhood.

Thanks Audrey.

“I know that my own father provides for his family - but given that he rarely acknowledges that it was interesting to hear him give an insight into the responsibility he feels.”

For more insight, I would recommend Will Smith’s “The Pursuit of Happyness”.

As for your dad’s need to make the point, I meant no link with abortion – just you apparent attitudes to parenthood, gender roles, rights and responsibilities. Had he perceived your appreciation of his role and pressures experienced by all (good) fathers, he would not have made the statement, nor would you have claimed new insight. Hopefully he was able to sense some recognition this time.

Audrey, "those that don't have any interest can be nothing but bad fathers" - I'm often left wondering how many of them would be better described as unwitting fathers. Ones who did not want to have a child but found themselves as fathers anyway. There are a variety of reasons why that might happen, many of the same ones which apply to women. The following are general comments on this rather than a reflection of where I think that you are coming from.

They may still be bad fathers, each of us has a choice about what we do with the consequences of our actions. Sometimes we just have to make the best of it and in the case of parenthood that means doing our best for kids (planned or unplanned).

For many of the same reasons that women choose to end a pregnancy (excluding the pregnancy itself) some men would rather not be fathers right now, the difference is that they don't in the end have a lot of choice once the initial act is done.

I suspect that a lot of people don't understand just how parenthood impacts on men, both those choosing to be parents and those who would rather not.

One of the consequences is that a lot of people are quite happy to villify men who don't fullfill what we think their responsibilities should be.

Biological fathers who don't want kids (and may not have had any say in the matter other than the initial act) are called deadbeat dads or bad dads. C$A meets with approval as it attempts to make them meet their "responsibilities" regardless of how little choice they may have had in the matter.

Many who are outraged when women who have either had abortions or given children up for adoption are attacked for their choices quite willingly villify men for trying to opt out.

R0bert

I have been away or I would have engaged earlier, but I wanted to say Thank you for your comments.

To the women with whom this struck a cord: I am glad that it did. Thank you for sharing your own experiences with me. The main point of my post was to express my feeling that I had been largely unprepared for many of the feelings that I was experiencing because I had not been privileged to share the similar feelings of other women before my own pregnancy. The post was actually written as a reaction to the posts (and comments threads) of Ampersand Duck, Zoe and Pavlov's Cat - all of which had just demonstrated to me that I actually wasn't alone in having those feelings.

To the guys who were outraged at the 'gall' of my expressing my own feelings on my own personal blog (for that is where this article was written), perhaps it is you that should get over yourselves. The fact that other people have experienced similar issues was the whole point, and the fact that still more people experience other challenges in life is kind of beside the point - such a line of reasoning simply makes everyone's personal experience completely irrelevant unless they can qualify in your eyes as being the 'most' badly off or 'most' lucky or whatever it is that you have decided to set up as the criteria for relevance. I am really not concerned with whether or not you care about my feelings - you were never my audience.

The word "breeders" if I recall correctly, was used in a derogatory sense by that group of people who support human rights and social justice ad nausem, when it suits their agenda.

'... and that non-feminist women are derided as "domesticated females" or even "breeders".'

The issue about the changes a female body goes through with pregnancy seems to be related to the fact that many women delay getting pregnant until their 30's and because of the falling birth rate, many do not have contact with pregnant women, to be exposed to the changes so it can be a shock to experience this without understanding what is happening. As such many people do not have exposure to babies, until their own is born, so dealing with such a small infant is life changing and the learning curve is huge.

Many women I have spoken to have found their first experience of child birth frightening.

Successive governments have failed in the past, to make child care FTB exempt. Child care placement is especially difficult for shift workers.

It is interesting that most of the flack about not returning to work early enough or returning too early comes from other women.

It doesn't matter if you are a mother or a father, university study becomes harder when a little person comes along, they don't understand about deadlines or study.

Cristy, somewhere in Uni Library is a paper on child birth in Tibet, if you think western women have it hard the read the paper on Tibet.

KerryMcG said, “It has only been feminists who have worked for baby friendly initiatives in hospitals ….supermarkets (Breastfeeding Mothers Assocation), urban planning etc etc. “

That is not correct, these changes resulted from community action and involved both concerned men and women. Unions were heavily involved.

Since when was the ABA (formerly Nursing Mothers assocn) or the (original) Association of Breastfeeding Mothers run by feminists? Where in its charter (see below) does it say that and where does it exclude men?

"WHO ARE THE ASSOCIATION OF BREASTFEEDING MOTHERS?
The Association of Breastfeeding Mothers (ABM) is a voluntary organisation founded in 1979 by a group of mothers experienced in breastfeeding counselling. Charity status was awarded to the organisation in 1980, and the Association continues to grow steadily throughout the United Kingdom.
As we are a charitable organisation we rely on grants, donations and membership subscriptions to continue our aims. We also work hard to minimise our costs and justify all of our expenditure.
Members of the ABM are mainly mothers who are breastfeeding or have breastfed their children in the past. Some breastfed easily without problems and some have experienced varying degrees of difficulty. Other members include supportive health professionals such as midwives, health visitors, lactation consultants and GPs.
"It is our aim to promote the physical and psychological health of mothers and children through education in the techniques of breastfeeding, and to advance the education of the public, especially those persons concerned with the care of children, on the health benefits of breastfeeding, both immediate and long-term."

Where are the feminist mantras in that?