Johno J “HOW TO STOP SHOOTING OF KANGAROOS:” don’t do that, I enjoy skippy on my barbeque

the gryphon is completely correct, The kangaroo population has exploded with the expansion of farming in Australia. The population is now far higher than it has ever been, they breed based on food source, not because they are feeling horny.

The same with animal liberationist, a few existed a few years back and now we are getting overrun with them. A cull of animal libers is long overdue, if for no other reason than, the rationale and reasoning of JohnoJ’s post show that from a limited gene pool, there is too much interbreeding.

"Ask your supermarket manager...for products...of imported wheat...After all, kangaroos are not killed in any other country during the production of wheat."

Duh! Given that there arent wild kangaroos in other countries, then you are correct by default. However, bet their own native animals have suffered loss of habitat. There are plenty of roo's. Get over it.

I also have problems with your references to water sources on the Carathool plains. Your evidence please? Or are you another greenie-type that have told me that the farmers of the Hay plains cut down all the trees? (Note to those that dont know better, the Hay plains have vast tracts that have always been treeless). Maps with creek names dont count - Lake Eyre got named, despite lack of regular flow. I grew up in the area that you are referring to, and with pretty big generation gaps, so knew people who were around in the 1800's. The plains were pretty dry then, and those creeks didnt run often.

I do happen to have a problem with the intensive feedlotting or cage-growing of animals. I do also understand the small margins that farmers make and the need for them to produce as efficiently as possible. However, given that I am disgusted by the smell of feedlots close to the roads I drive, I avoid all but homekilled beef (which is usually head-shot where it is grazing, killed in the most humane way possible). I dont eat pork (mental problem with the killing of pigs that we named as suckers). I rarely eat chicken (not enough iron). If you want to eat a non-intensively farmed animal, do as I do and stick to lamb. Sheep are feedlotted yes, but research has shown that sheep grow much faster (therefore more profitable), if the feedlot has a certain amount of space, is clean and has toys. Yep, sheep love to play (just watch how they carry on on a dam bank), so by nature they get quite a reasonable time of things in their feedlots. Eating lamb is Aussie anyway - just watch the ads!!

Really, the way some of you fellows carry on and the gryphon's references to his evening meals makes me wonder. What is for dinner tonight - backpacker?

I think you should all consider that professional kangaroo shooters are a minority. What, about 5,000 licenses issued country wide? I understand destruction permits and recreational licences are a different thing. Though even with all the support of all the people in the country (you haven't mine), you still are a small minority.

Democracy is a strange thing. We have many laws that make little sense, why not a few more?

Wrt. the labelling thing. I believe the success demonstrated by "dolphin free" tuna affirms there is the potential for a similar impacts on the cereal industry.

As for the potential for boycott of products labelled as such, well I think you may be surprised. It may be the third world though I'm sure they still have dial-up.

For example, in Japan they have a food labelling system in which food packages are micro-chipped so that picky consumers may see exactly what their food has been sprayed with, what farmer grew it, how much water was used per kilo of product....etc. I’m sure a list of animals harmed would not be too hard to add. Additionally, the Japanese whaling commission already makes a big point of how can Australians possibly criticise them for all those whales.

So it would appear the templates for such events are there, at least in a few places.

I applaud country gal’s submission. I have heard nothing about the Hay plains clearing. I am nearly out of space for this post, though briefly; what I am talking about in reference to water supply on Carathool plain is that like many places in Australia, bore water is heavily utilised. That like matter can not be created or destroyed, surface fresh water and groundwater may or may not be interconnected depending on the area.

To draw water from bores that are interconnected with surface water, dependent on recharge actually takes that water out of rivers/ streams.

Really, the way some of you fellows carry on and the gryphon's references to his evening meals makes me wonder. What is for dinner tonight - backpacker? End quote JJ.

I think i will leave the backpackers for the experts IE: Jefferey Dahmer!Albert Fish,Issy Aragawa and the others.

Hmmm though on second thoughts i did see a couple of tasty Swedish types in their micro bikini`s on the Spit at the Gold Coast last year (the spit haha is a tourist beach).

Hay Plains? Some of the most amazing starlit nights spent there around areas as Corrong,One Tree,Booroobran and other places we have had in pursuit of wild pigs for the chillers and those roos on the truck that i posted the link too came from there also.And i must say one of the Hay Plains greatest assets is that there are no JJ`s or Dickies out there either.A rare place where the greens dont want to know about.God i hope they dont find a five legged four winged hopping mouse up there to save.Hooray.
Andrew Barton P himself wrote about the starry skies on those very plains,its a shame he wasnt around to write some wise words of wisdom about you greeny folk.

Though i suppose they (greens) could start up a "save the old man saltbush fund" and stop those horrible cockie`s sheep destroying it.

Ah! saltbush lamb chewing its tucker getting fatter for the gryphons is a sight to see,Sam Kekovich would surely agree.

I'm always amazed by the Green's who point at farmers with such derision. Animal farmers require extensive knowledge about the care and feeding of their animals. Animal husbandry is not a euphemism for wanton destruction. It isn't the honest farmer who wants his animals penned up and living their life out in a 4'x6' allotment. It's the Mega-Agri business who come along and think they can farm like they run shopping malls. 10,000 pigs under one roof and all their waste. 100,000 chickens under one roof and all their waste. It's not the honest farmer running maybe 4 animals to the acre. If the green's want to protest something they ought to educate themselves to that interest of the moment, not just react with blanket blame. Then again if they really got down to doing a proper investigation they would be surprised at the number of green-minded farmers out there. Growing up in the bush and making a living off your own land may not get you all the toys of a city life cuz it's damn hard work and money can be short. It's not an experience that leads one to destruction but towards attention and husbandry.

Hear hear, aqvarivs. Its just another reason why our society should support family farmers - those that genuinely care for their land and their animals - rather than assuming that corporations are better farmers because they have higher profits.

Although some are daunted by the size and space of the Hay plains, I love it. The sheer emptiness has a magical way of showing you just how insignificant you are - a great cure for inflated egos.

The Gryphon, I'm not sure that there is a five legged four winged hopping mouse for the greenies to find out there, but local farmers did find the Plains Wanderer, a unique bird that looks a bit like a quail, but is actually the only member of its species, and was thought to be extinct. The local farmer that found it in the mid-80's runs weekly tours for birdo's to view the bird. Which just goes to show that farmers are most certainly NOT against conservation.

Sadly there is not much saltbush left on the plains for lambs to munch - the salt-bush bug killed most of it years ago, and then it was competed out by grasses. Sad for the industry as saltbush was more drought-hardy than the rye and barley grass that you find there now (when it rains). These grasses have also competed out the wild paper daisies, which used to make the plains look like they were covered in snow.

JJ, my point re the waterways of the Hay and Carrathool plains is that these only ever ran in wet years. They are not permanent water ways. The majority of irrigation in the area is sourced from the Bidgee, and distributed via irrigation schemes. Most bores are for stock and domestic use only, and you have to go down 100+ metres to get drinkable water - at a cost of $20,000+ per bore. So these are not put down lightly. Further, a lot of old bores have collapsed from age and not been replaced. Instead water is piped from river-based sources, as is cheaper than redrilling a new bore.