BrainDrain,

Finger pointing is not going to change the historical facts of a religion that has based its core values on the example of a terrorist opportunist called Mohammad.

It may be time to plug that that drain and start inputting some truth into it. The world will be a better place when Muslems will start to use their brains and reason like other human beings.

Bazz - Thank you for correcting my error. It was Galileo Galilei, not Leonardo, that the Catholics forced to recant his heretical belief that the Earth rotated around the Sun, after years of banishment and prevention of him having contact with his daughter. I'm sure he laughed all the way to his deathbed knowing that the joke was indeed on the Catholic orthodoxy of what was 'officially' (ie. ordained by 'God') right and wrong for the people of his day.

As for your personal belief on Islam and it's proponents I am glad to see from your latest post that you can actually use statements appearing to contain a reasonable degree of accuracy to espouse it rather than the provably falacious ones you first offered as argument in the post I criticised.

Now if we could just get rid of Lebanese Muslims and those darned petrol-sniffing Abo's our jails would then be able to be filled with our own criminals rather than just letting them off with tiny little fines and putting them back out on the streets and forum sites because of overcrowding.

I suppose the dozen or so white Werribee students were just following Sharia Law when they raped and abused a 'spas' while videoing themselves doing it and selling the evidence for $5 a pop? Doesn't their behaviour indicate to you that anti-social behaviour in our current society has very little, if anything, to do with religious preference, but more with a lack of willingness to accept personal responsibility for our actions, as endorsed and reinforced by the examples of almost all political leaders in Western democracies such as ours.

Bush has proved that it is ok to hit someone just because you think they might be plotting to hit you. Pre-emptive strikes are now justifyable by democratic governments - why not then by disgruntled Muslims? Why not by neo-nazi bigots? Why not by you and me?

Bazz (cont.)...

If our elected leaders resort to smears to justify waging war on those unable to mount an appropriate level of defence against a superiorly armed group of aggressors, then citizens such as you and i can feel justified in using such unfounded or illogical smears to support our own feelings to attack others weaker than ourselves. That does not make it right or proper.

Btw - in my home here in the west it was a local mosque that was shot up while women and children prayed inside - not a police station. But you probably would blame an opposing faction of Islam for such a crime as no civilised 'christian ozzie' would ever perpetrate such atrocious acts of revenge - would they? Or is the act of building a church to pray to a pagan god a crime for which such behaviour is considered permissable - as long as it's by one of 'us'?

Coach - the world will actually only be a better place when more people, especially christians, start acting like Christ and not like the Pharisees and scribes he warned us all against following the 'leaven' of. That is to act according to the Love of a living God, who pours rain on both saint and sinner alike, and not according to man's interpretation of dead unchanging scripture.

Plugging a drain means that the container must quickly become full and unable to add or appreciate any new ideas or concepts that challenge us as we grow - it might be time you pulled the plug on your inability to see past your bible and belief that only those who agree with you possess the only way to God?

Fellow_Human

Thank you for the advice on the book Islam for Dummies. I shall certainly buy a copy and read it. Perhaps we should all do the same.
I bought and read the one on Judaism and that was excellent.

I think coach isn't the only one here who could benefit by reading both of the above books.

If you saw the recent series on SBS on the Secret Files of the Inquisition you can see how easily religions can be hijacked by those seeking unbridled power.

- I quote from coach "Sneekee - you obviously have no idea what Islamic values are. Gang rape, terror, women covered in tents, bearded men in long dresses, etc... is but the outward visible signs of an invasion of our country and values"

Actually, the more I read some of the anti Islamic crap from the likes of you coach I start to yearn for the day when we are over run.

I know as much about Islam as the next fellow - maybe more - more than enough to know that rape and terror are not intrinsic parts of Islam - it suits a lot of morons to think that though. So whenever I see it written I am compelled to call it what it is .... but if I did it would not be published - so sneekee bites his tongue here

On what basis do you or any one make the claim that terorrism and gang rape is a value of Islam? - charges like that are so absurd to not require rebuttal - and dont talk to me about the twin towers or Bali because I dont give a rats arse - worse things happen all the time and most of us dont care about them either.

Get a grip all of you!

Regarding the appalling gang crimes at Werribee, the callous violence and the crass trade in porn DVD, it's interesting how quiet some of our regulars are who are so quick to connect Islam with "gang rape, terror, women covered in tents, bearded men in long dresses, etc... the outward visible signs of an invasion of our country and values".

Once it was established that the gangs were predominatly of Anglo-Saxon origin why haven't I heard our regular moral coaches concluding that our Anglo-Saxon culture condones gang rape, terror, sexual depravity and other forms of cowardly violence?

Could it be that the Werribee louts are exhibiting the outward visible signs of an invasion our country and values by Ango-Christian fundamentalists?