I tell you what the west can learn from Israel - how not to behave. Not to shoot kids in the head by use of canon, or shooting teenagers who have done nothing wrong, or poisoning the crops of the native desert people...the Israeli's have become what we think we are against.

Israel is a nation that unfortunately treats others like filth, who have Nazi like movements and more. If you want to stop bottom of the barrel rubbish from coming into Australia, stop the Israeli's.

Learning? From, simply speaking, Jews?

You are maybe strange to Australia, mr. Lapkin

No "Logic", I did not learn about the power of the Zionist lobby and the way they influence Australian politicians by reading Mein Kampf or Protocols of the Elders. Why don't you learn some of the truth of the matter by reading Blanche d'Alpuget's biography of Bob Hawke or study the political career of H.V. Evatt and his rise within the U.N. ? Just for a start.

Or if you want to learn about the Mother of all Zionist Lobbies, on which others are modelled, and with which they connected, read the London Review of Books article by J. Mearsheimer and S. Walt on "The Israel Lobby" (23.3.06). They write, inter alia, that "other special interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and Israel's are essentially identical."

It's time someone had the temerity to write a similar analysis of the lobby's work in Australia. There's plenty of evidence to be had.

Hi Ted

Well now we are getting somewhere other than considering war as a solution.

Sadly I find the view Israel captured the West Bank in a different light to you. True it was captured and is occupied but where I think we differ is that I don't see it as a prize in the sense of it being 'spoils of war'.
I think the Israelis should surrender it to it's original owners, like Sinai and parts of Jordan. They should stop stealing parts of it, selling it to settlers, building walls around parts of it and claiming it as it's own. You know as well as I those activities are expressly banned by the Geneva Convention.

Even as senior government officials they'd still have a snowball's chance to convince the rest of the Arab world their pathway is the optimum.

Where did I claim the Arab League as admirable. I find most of their positions just as repugnant as most of the positions of the Israelis. I'd deal with anyone who suggests peace and reframe from belittling them.

Yes as I said the right of return is a major sticking point. It was to Clinton's efforts at Taba as well. Even then it was not resolved. I don't need you to repeat the Israeli position on the issue. I am well aware of it. In your homily on this point you attack the peace proposers from the other side. I think that type of rhethoric and attitude is a major stumbling block to peace as well. Oh, I agree, it happens from both sides. If Israel really wants peace it will drop such talk and attitude. Similarly with the Arab and Palestinian side.We all see it for what it is...inbred emnity.

You missed one of the prime injustices of the Second War. The annexation of the Sudatenland by Hitler because it was occupied mostly by Germans. Hope we don't see a parallel to that, eh Ted.
Can you tell me those lands that are still occupied by the Allies after the defeats of Germany, Italy and Japan?

However I fundamentally agree the return of Palestinians to the lands given to Israel before '48 and those taken between that and the '67 war as an impossibility. I think that point needs negotiation. On the other hand I think any territory taken during and occupied after the '67 war should be returned and any settlers removed.

Those are the points that Camp David and Taba couldn't resolve.

That's where negotiations for peace should start.

And my final point. One of those UN resolutions spoke about compensation rather than a return. Why is that course impossible to negotiate?

Do any of those 800,000 Jewish and now presumedly Israeli citizens wish to rerturn?

Lebanon wasn't headed in the direction you claim...they were attempting a move toward true democracy. The Israelis have suppressed the development of the Palestinains and yet even they too had recently held democratic and proven fair elections.

Finally Taba and the deal offered by Israel. Nobody knows the details of the final Israeli proposal because there just wasn't one. My recall is that Ehud Barak refused to talk to Arafat because he was facing an election in Israel and thought it pointless. At that election Barak was dumped and Israel became more militarist and zionist and the rest is history.
Arafat retarded the Palestinain cause simply because he was a self-interested gangster.
Clinton's views! Ha... well who would bother I found him populist in the extreme and totally self-serving.

Regards Keith

ps My comments to Horus were intended as 'tongue in cheek'. That is a sad commentary on his continual and unoriginal personal attacks.

"Can you tell me those lands that are still occupied by the Allies after the defeats of Germany, Italy and Japan?"

Keith, how about Guam to start off.

Ted's assertion that the ATMs were from Iran and Syria do not hold water. It seems to my reading that he majority were from the Lebanese Army and supplied by the USA.

Israel has used "models" of weapons supposedly supplied by Russia via Syria.

Of course Hezbollah is a part of the democractically elected Govt. of Lebanon.