Marilyn,

Esther Vilar wrote "the Manipulated Man" almost 30 years ago.

David Thomas wrote "Not guilty in Defense of the Modern Man" 1993

see "Neil Lyndon's Case"
http://www.ukmm.org.uk/issues/suppression/nl.htm

Daphne Patai "Heterophobia" & "Professing Feminism"

Christina Hoff Summers "Who Stole Feminism"

The various works of Erin Pizzey and Eeva Sodhi. Christine Stobla's "Lying in a room of ones own"

I understand that there does not appear to be many Universities in Australia offering a Men's studies course.

Even the sex discrimination commissioner Pru Goward takes opportunites to dis men. She definitely promotes sex discrimination!

Melaine Phillips "The sex change society"

And as a academic if you don't know what the arguement is about treating boys and girls differently then read the book "The War against boys."

I see many parrallels between Orwells "animal farm" and feminism

re irwin, no harm came to child. Thats the point.

Ifs/buts/maybes of wot could've happened is rationalising dislike. Fair enough, tho easier and quicker to just say you dont like the guy.

Wasnt carrying child whilst swimming with stingray, indicative of capacity to distinguish levels of danger to his child, something parents do all the time = responsible. Anyone for a glass of half full?

Irresponsible? NO
Foolish? YES.

Risky? YES, obviously not overstepping his personal limit.

Criticism of risky behaviours tend to come from risk averse individuals. The higher the risk aversion the more critically vociferous. Greer is a closeted academic protected from life's extreme realities by sandstone and manicured gardens... not surprising that the guy scares her.

Speeding down freeway at 110k, whilst texting with a 2yr old in baby seat... irresponsible? Risk of coming to grief like this prolly higher than being snapped by a croc whilst in the arms of your highly experienced croc-handling dad. Yes, he came to grief on the end of rays barb, NOT his child. Funny that.

Original feminism was EQUITY feminism, regarding BOTH genders and the impact of negative/positive stereotyping. It called upon ALL to take responsibility, especially women. Ironically, greer was very much a champion of personal accountability.

Then it morphed into GENDER feminism, a brand of identity politics.

ID politics rationalises via arbitrary classifications like race, religion, gender. In the process doing two things...
1) vilifies ideological opponents (gets nasty and breeds scape-goating), and
2)invokes victimology. Victims are angry and/or dependent, two things that politicians habitually cultivate.

ID politics is a copout.

Once you see how hard the batlle is and how difficult it is to challenge oneself, you give up, get angry, attack and vilify the opposition... maintain the rage.

Many (most?) see that for what it is, not wanting any part of it. Like the union movement. Greer has become a symbol for all that women dont want to identify with on a personal level, notwithstanding the meritorious aspects of the ideology.

peace.

trade said "Once you see how hard the batlle is and how difficult it is to challenge oneself, you give up, get angry, attack and vilify the opposition... maintain the rage.". There seems to be plenty of that happening here.

How do we work with the honest feminists when so many insist on condemming all feminists because of the excesses of some?

Once again a chance to raise a legitimate issue and put it into context will loose it's power with those willing to listen because some must turn every opportunity into a feminism bashing frenzy.

Sad.

R0bert

To OZGIRL,

At first I thought you were taking the P out of things, but I detect a genuine note of sincerity and passion in your writing. Either way, it doesn't matter, for what you have written is a joy to read.

And further to your comment, "Women have forgotten their 1st priority... Their children and their marriage..."

I'd like to add, that the very same thing goes for a significant number of men today. I'd say, many men have forgotten their 1st priority too... Their children and their marriage...

In fact, Western liberal society has in general forgotten their 1st priority all around and we all have to pay the price, now and for many future generations. Although I am heartened to see that Gen-X, although tying the knot later in life, are appearing to be more conservative and are not divorcing in the numbers previous generations did. Perhaps having been the child victims of their parent's selfish divorces, they've learnt the interminable pain of family breakdown that children suffer and have decided to do it right.

Of course I am the eternal optimist. Otherwise, why would I bother writing any of this stuff at all?

Maximus, I hope that you are right. It would be great if we are moving past the period when marriage and responsibilities to children are treated lightly by both men and women. It hurts us all far to much.

R0bert

To Robert - again.

Mate, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you exasperate me. Nothing personal here, I hope you understand. You really are the poor sad-sack guy wandering about out there in no-mans-land, blinded by the smoke, wounded, looking for a safe haven, clutching for straws, hoping that the bloody sex-war can be discussed away like some UN convention on world peace, and then everyone, including yourself, can live happily ever after.

Wake up mate. Grow up. There is no halfway solution. It's a bloody war. I didn't start it and it's not my fault. But by golly, I intend to fight it to the end.

Why?

I don't know. Maybe it's because I care about common decency. Maybe it's because I get choked up and cry when an 8 year old girl gets ripped to pieces and death by a crocodile in the NT and everyone cries for more environmental conservation and preservation for animals. I'd rather have 8 year-old girls than crocodiles. You're the kind of guy who'd call for more debate and more middle ground while more kids died. I'm not.

You ask about different treatments towards honest and (assume) dishonest feminists. I cannot, in 350 words, engage in that kind of banter. So start here -

Angry Harry
Student's guide to feminism
http://www.angryharry.com/notefeminismforstudents.htm

There's a serious war on mate, a sex-war, but you don't seem to get it. You can't see the forest for the trees. Yet you wonder why the world and the courts are treating you and your kids so poorly. Wake up. Get on side. I haven't the time nor inclination to save blokes like you. I have more time and genuine respect for my enemy -

Mad Sheila Musings
by Alyx
http://madsheilamusings.blogspot.com/

At least she earns my respect. And I've told her so. She's got guts and a passion for her cause. That I can respect.

And that's about my 350 words and my 2 posts in 24 hours - so good luck mate, you really need it.