Many men dislike ideological pretentions of feminism. Most feminists are women, therefore men hate women. Excellent logic. But, male feminists exist, therefore men who disagree also hate men. Hmmmm... methinks you are calling anyone who disagrees with you nasty names. Outstanding reasoning. Wot about women who disagreee with feminism? Are they self hating women?

Usual suspects descend into the predictable 'small member' ridicule plus emotive manilpuations like appeals to guilt and shame... then wounder why they have such a bad reputation and few take them seriously.

Credibility. You look bad.

Attempt to open a more expansive and inclusive discussion and you are summarily shouted down. Wot a surprise. No point anymore. They arent serious. May as well wind them up for some third rate entertainment.

Man-hating fems miss a crucial point of why their movement is on the ropes... you forgot to include the other gender in your 'struggle' for alleged gender eekwalatee. You have no idea how many men like myself are waiting in the wings to support those of you who are serious about gender equality.

You have no idea how many reformed male feminists (like myself) have turned our backs on you only after grudgingly accepting that you were disingenuous and running a sham. Became anti-feminist (as opposed to anti-gender equality) once l came to recognise the truth.

l will consider feminism a success when the self agrandising proponents of me,me,me ekwalatee picket the womens only gymnasiums. A deliberately minor and trivial example. If you cannot even challenge that obvious hypocracy of your own exclusive and sexist tendencies, wot hope have you in tackling the big issues? Anyway, let the rationalisations begin.

This is the true failure of feminism. Women failed to challenge their own sexist tendencies and are complicit in perpetuating a whole host of negative stereotypes effecting men.

Its a two way street.

Its YOUR movement. YOU need to figure out a way to get men on board. Will get back on board the masses of women who dont want anything to do with your incredible negativity.

And stop taking yourselves soooooooooooooo seriously.

No we won't Carniflex.
Because we already do the vast majority of the world's unpaid work and always have done, please tell me some of the unnoticed things men do for our comfort? I can tell you some of the ones we do for yours; scrub the toilet ( as noted in a previous post), change the toilet role, clean up the kitchen - including when we cooked and when you cooked, look after your children and so lose any chance of decent super when we retire by interrupting our careers, give you the emotional support you are usually unable to give one another, not care when you get fat or bald or both, admire you when you are young and goodlooking silently - rather than howl it out in public places, not criticise your driving on a gender basis, allow you only to represent yourself rather than every other man, admire your intellect rather than feel threatened by it, celebrate your success rather than resent it, remember to pick up bread and milk when its running out, know the names of our kids teachers, dentists and doctors, make the appointments and take time off work to take them, accept the blame when our kids behave badly and share the praise when they do well, know we will be blamed if the house is untidy, while you never will, feel guilty about working or taking any time for ourselves when we become mothers, not mind when you travel with work and we get to stay home changing nappies, know when the sheets need changing - and change them, sort your socks, underwear, shirts, take responsibility for all the housework (even if you help) and at least some of the financial contribution, remember birthdays and buy all the presents - even for your family - and wrap them, and act as your social secretary. Anything else you can think of Scout? Anna?

"Anna re equal pay, when the workplace death rate is equal, when you produce equally and are equally adept at doing the many things that men, most unknown to you, do for your advantage and comfort. Then you'll get equal pay."

This comment is quite ridiculous. Besides the obvious sexism involved. Perhaps you should let the CEOs know that they shouldn't be getting all that cash considering their job doesn't involve them operating heavy machinery. I'm a journalist. If I were to report from a conflict zone I'd hope to be getting paid the same as the men also putting their lives at risk so you can sit on your arse and be kept up to date with what's happening in the world.

The whole point of the equal pay argument IS equal pay for equal work. If there's a field where men dominate pay is obviously relevant to that field and if there are women in the same field doing the same job then they damn well should be paid the same, but "work" by definition doesn't just include being a tradesmen or what have you. So stop with your ridiculous argument as to why women shouldn't be paid equally.

And Trade215- I'd hoped I wouldn't have to pull out the irony meter and slap you round the head with it. The "small-membered" comment was in response to James insinuating that that's where we'd go next with our arguments.

Anna so that it explains it. I guess you probably about 30+?

I guess a decent journalist would do their research rather than regurgitate propaganda.

But then how do journalists cope when the results of the research conflict with their own personal and political beliefs?

There was a national news story which made all the headlines. I had the inside information. Yet when I read the story in the papers the only thing that was the same were the names of the people involved. The story published in the papers was a complete fabrication. (The Privacy act prevents me from giving more detail.)

It funny that Leslie Cannold, has an article on this site about mainstream media exercising important quality control over what we see, hear and read.

If one really bothers to do the groundwork and check facts and figures the mainstream media’s quality control is extremely questionable. Until the advent of the internet this was very hard. The media is about propaganda and manipulation, whilst real facts and figures get lost in the ‘sophistry’ and many journalists are sophist’s.

Two decades ago Lenore Weitzman published her now infamous research which showed that after divorce women’s standard of living fell by 73% and a man’s rose by 43%. The media fell over each other to publish this research with unquestioning devotion.

The only problem was that Weitzman’s research was WRONG! She denied other researchers access to her figures for about a decade. http://www.acbr.com/biglie.htm

The plain fact of the matter is that the media rush each other to publish material which later is untrue or a plain misrepresentation of facts. Even at the time of Weitzman’s research there were people questioning her findings, but because they did not fit in the woman are good and men are bad category they were ignored.

In the rush to crucify men, truth, honesty and justice fly out the window. We wind up with Joseph Stalin show trials, and laws which are beginning to look and sound like they are taken straight from The Malleus Maleficarum.

Anna feminism in your eyes is all about power of the individual and you have demonstrated that your personal ego is more important than logical,calm debate.
I'm not advocating the return of the bad old days of almost Islamic subjugation,however the raving feminist lunatics miss the point to the detriment of both sexes.There is a price for everything and just being the Chief Honcho with the BMW and the absolute water front property,isn't without it's downside.

Are we to rise above the raw,gonal urges of unadulterated power,or move to an understanding of our common humanity?

See what l mean. Cannot even take responsibility for one's comments without playing the blame game. 'l never said it. lm just saying someone else said it." Or aluded to it, or implied it.

Meter out the irony.

Boyaah-di-daah-di-blah.

Crediting others with your opinions and getting others to defend your assumptions is a favoured tactic in these parts. Very cleverly done too. Great distraction.

Tho thouroughly passe. This is pretty obvious stuff and just what gets folks to switch off to your message.