Philo'
'sacrifice to the gods of pleasure'.... that has a fire and brimstone feel about it as I see, but in some respects u have a point.
Society does need to get a bit of perspective on this and other issues.It is not,as Robert says, a black and white issue..there are many shades of grey here, so many different sets of circumstances and I realise Wendy is talking about silly young things that think its a doddle having kids and then not stepping up and being a good mother and all that that entails, education in schools would be a good start...in a lot of cases parents dont have the skills to properly guide their young women, and dont care hence the problem in a lot of cases..children having babies to have someone to love, because they didnt have a loving home themselves.

Like I said this problem is highly subjective and one can't lump indivduals into a common collective.,simply not that easy.
Whilst I dont think that losing our reputation is something one can measure or should matter, and if it did in what context?

cheers

Philo, "The raising and nurturing of children is not a secret womans issue; It is a whole of society issue. We must guard our society from irresponsible social attitudes that sacrifice children to the gods of pleasure."

Well said on that first point. On the second point the danger is that most of us tend to define "irresponsible social attitudes" based on what does not fit within our own viewpoints. There are some parts of that which are failry widely agreed on (leaving the kids in the car in the carpark for a few hours while you play the pokies) and other parts which are not - I think a parent moving away from the other (and taking the kids) for any reason except substantiated ongoing violence is very irresponsible but our governments don't appear to share that view point (CSA and Centerlink still pay them the same or better). Some people might think placing a kid in a church school is very responsible others of us deplore it. We do need some common standards for society to work but we do need to be carefull that those standards are a genuine set not one group imposing itself on the rest.

Wendy, I'm waiting to see what happens with the new General facility on the forums. Hopefully it will be suitable for some of those discussions - there is plenty of scope for a discussion on the pro's and con's of the way we deliver help to the "needy" - can we do it(or are we already doing so) in a manner that helps those receiving it to change the types of decisions which contribute to the need for welfare? What can we do better? What should we do with those who refuse to help themselves? Access to abortion is one of the mechanisms which can help people move past a mistake.

R0bert

Robert,
you are close to the mark when u say that i have been subject to bad treatment by men(male to be exact) but I try very hard not to let that colour my experience of the general male population, you made that observatiobn a few posts back.

When I post on here I recognise that to go down that path my veiwpoint maybe does not have much of a resonance to other people.
But there is a very large population of women married and single who have walked in my shoes,severe domestic violence and other that I dont care to mention here ,so I am very representative for those women if I did and in some small ways I obviously do, but even so that cant be a bad thing...for if that were so, I am representative of that large section of women, and we all come from our own experiences.Many women on here cant perhaps comprehend my life and I am not lucky enough thus far to have had the privelidge of a normal life , mum dad kids.I do not intend for that to be so for too much longer.I call it a privelidge because it feels that way to me.

I value the presence of men and their contributions in my life very highly, in this one instance, we will get a lot of wires crossed because none of us knows the other and compexities of each personality, it is a very personal subject close to the hearts of us all.

So lets say the guys on here have defended themselves vigorously and rightly so...and we do have the right to disagree until the next time.

Please check out my novel. It was written to empower, a percentage goes to prevent child abuse, and it's a cheap ebook. All you need to do is: www.fatcatpress.com. You will cry at first, then get strong enough to leave that a--hole you must be living with. He doesn't represent men -- he's a p--s-s-y, colloquially speaking, and deserves his a-- kicked. You are too good to hang around. Life is short and you can do better, way better based on your comments here. Your're smart and that's the main thing to attract a good man.

Robert Eggleton
"Rarity from the Hollow"

OZGIRL, thanks for the response. I may be a bit paranoid on that issue because of the training as a social worker aspect. My perception of doing the rounds of those who work on the fringes of family law is that a significant proportion of those in that area are women who got into the field in part because of their own bad experiences. I've probably made that point before as well. One of the concerns about the new family relationship centers is that they will be staffed by the same crowd. I've not seen anything to indicate that men deal with their personal hurts in the same way.

Good luck in finding what you are looking for. My impression is that it takes a determined effort not to keep repeating our mistakes - some of the things which attracted us to the wrong types in the first place may be part of the problem. Something I've struggled with.

Cheers
R0bert

Robert.E.

Thank you for your kind words re my post..I have now left him and on my own with my 3 children, even though life is hard now,at least we are at peace in that sense.
Your readings sound interesting and I will find time to take a look soon.

Robert I do fully intend to be aware of any red flags that signal another dysfunctional personality coming my way.As you say,the silly thing to do would be to go headlong into a relationship and not have my wits about me.

I seemed to have collected some wisdom and a lot more tolerance on the path that has been my life thus far...I hope I am able to make balanced,ethical and compassionate choices in my work,whoever is before me, male or female...since giving birth to my son I have quickly changed my mind on a lot of issues Id previously had been quite one eyed about regarding the human experience for men.

I know women do it tough regarding issues of equality in a men dominated world, but I also see that males have their own burdens quite unique to them...the teaching of 'Society and Culture'and gender issues contained therein and Psychology that I am now studying ,fascinating stuff all have opened my eyes..

I think men are unique and should be celebrated in their'maleness' as women should in turn celebrated in their 'femininty'.Essential for true human understanding