Celivia, I think the whole problem comes back to the religious
lobby. They are small in number, but in some things have quite
some influence.

They complain about 80k abortions a year, but when better
sex education, free contraception, follow the Holland method
etc are put forward, they would rather stonewall all that.

At the end of the day, they would like all of us to cross
our legs for Jesus, and its just not going to happen!

On the other hand, I know plenty of secular people who are
involved in loyal, faithfull relationships. However their
reasoning for being so, has little to do with religion,
more with philosophy etc. The religious lobby just can't
get their minds around that, sadly.

The problem with RU 486 is that none of the big drug companies
want to get involved with the hassle of importing it, as sales
are relatively minor and of course they will have to face
placards on their doorsteps etc, if we go by what happened
in other countries. This drug being tested now, is already
here, for other reasons, so all that falls away.

BTW Wendy, the live sheep trade is a huge saviour for WA
farmers and sheep at the present time, as we face drought here.
Boats have improved and are better then most feedlots that you
have over there. We don't have the meatworks here, neither
people who want to staff them. We have a minerals boom, there
are better jobs around then meatworks. Trucking sheep East,
as has been happening, is in fact far more cruel, also hugely
costly. Inform yourself on the live trade from WA, its a long
way from what it was and today is a win-win for all, including
the sheep. For WA it certainly matters hugely, especially now

Yabby .

I run the RSPCA QLD PALE Ban Live Export Programe.

Here are the facts .

www.halakindmeats.com

www.livexports.com

Dont forget to look at the pictures.

After up the three months crambed on ship going blind because of the acid and urinating from the 4 tear ships they >the tendons of their legs, smash their knees with sledge hammers stab their eyes then the throat is cut without stunning.

For cattle the suffering is much longer.

There are no knocking boxes .

The smell of blood a their mates being slaughtered in full view naturally creates extream stress while they scream out with their last bit of energy for someone or something to help them.
Do Not post to me again.
If you support that you are evil.

Dr Hugh Wirth the President of RSPCA has made this material available to all farmers and there are plenty of other outlets apart from live exports.
Shame on you.

I apoligise for being led off post to others.

I watched a story on 60 Minutes tonight, of a Canberra couple who
have adopted two Ethopian kids. It was a joy to watch, as these
kids have a chance in life and become little Aussies!

It beats me how people can become emotional about zygotes and
embryos, when clearly there are these many feeling, suffering, thinking,
little people out there, who need all the help they can get.

Wendy, you can publish all the websites you want, if the info
is out of date, then its worth zilch. Things have changed, you
need to update yourself.

Cameron Morse of the Countryman (WA farming paper) just did a
trip to Jordan on the Becrux. The sheep were well looked after,
they even used stun guns when slaughtered in Jordan. Not that
many years ago, that was not even the case in WA meatworks.
Go to any shearing shed, animals throats are slit with no
stun guns, as shearers and farmers kill their own meat.

Given that sheep are starving in WA paddocks, lambs are being
shot by the tens of thousands right now, feedmills cannot
provide fodder either, the live export trade, having moved
700'000 sheep in a couple of months, is providing a vital
service to both sheep and growers. Update your information
Wendy, you are way out of date with the reality of today's
live sheep trade from WA.

Yabby

I said I would not reply to your utter garbage.
Others are trying to post about the topic at hand.
We are well aware of what has gone where and how they are treated and slaughtered.

As we speak we have agents right throughout. The footage is shocking.

When you export a animal alive you export it in its most vaulable form ie wool on its back and those jobs bi products and the small goods not to mention the abattoirs and the meat.

AFIC the Australian federation of Islamic council themselves have come out with two media releases asking for the animals to be slaughtered here in Australia and to re open the abattoirs.

If the Muslims themselves are screaming about the cruelty I think that is clear.

There is NO REASON they cant be slaughtered here Halal where we have some laws regarding animal welfare and provide jobs for Australians.

The footage we have gained AGAIN in the last couple of months shows there are no stun guns used in most plants.

Surley Australia is not so desperate for an extra twenty dollars it must subject animals to be sent alive where they have no respect for human lives or laws let alone animals.

oh by the way Yabby Two of our people returned friday after five months of gainging evidence.[again]

Is that up date enough for you.

You clearly just shoot off at the mouth trying to misinform the public for reasons known only to you.

If you wish to carry on click on my email address and do so privately. Or email Dr Hugh Wirth RSPCA President. I am sure he could put you straight.

Now why dont you let the others get back to the drug to introduce abortion and have some manners.

I probably should not have replied however as this is my job I hope others will understand we wont tolerate people trying to misinform the public about this barbaric trade thats not run by farmers rather corps and low lifes.

Wendy, perhaps you would like to make a worthwhile contribution to the comments of this article: Legal Abuse of Animals- http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=4594#45126
Oh I tried the link to your website out of interest but it doesn’t work; can you check it?

Yes, LOL, Yabby, true that they complain about abortion and also lecture about pre-marital sex, but they don’t realize that by doing this they’re achieving the opposite.

For religious anti-abortionists to think about:
I believe I’ve discussed this on OLO before, but in short, I'll just say that countries with liberal abortion laws do not even need to use this service as much because of the widespread, freely available sex education and contraception http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922117.html

If you, as a religious group, really want to help reduce abortion rates do something about preventing abortions other than complain, pray, bore and lecture 21st century teenagers and people about outdated morals and lobby for or at least discuss contraception to be covered by Medicare.

Wendy, I mentioned the live trade, because you have mentioned
it, on numerous occasions. You clearly have no idea
of the situation in West Australia. The two subjects are in fact
related. I guess I'm just getting
tiered of arm-chair idealists, thousands of Km from the coalface,
usually badly informed about a topic, spruiking their misinformed
opinions, so in that case I point out why they are misinformed :)

There are no meatworks in WA waiting to be reopened, no workers to
staff them either, not even operating meatworks can find staff, they
have headed for the mining boom. You Eastern Staters really know
ZILCH about our great State!

A feedlot is a feedlot, if it floats or not is not an issue.
Fact is that modern live sheep ships have far better standards then
most Aussie feedlots.

If Hugh Wirth wants to debate the issue, I am sure that Graham
would accept his contribution and we can all discuss it here on OLO
in public.

Philosophically I am against suffering of any kind, if it can be
avoided. Be that the Catholic Church in the 3rd world, forcing
women to have children that they don't want and can't afford to
feed, or sheep dying in a drought, because there is no food to
feed them and no meatworks in WA to process them. Trucking them
East is a cruel solution, not a kind one.

However I refuse to be a hypocrite. Many of the idealists who comment about the live sheep trade, clearly don't have a clue as
to what is happening in our own country. Most sheep from that trade
are slaughtered in abattoirs in the Middle East. A few are sold
at markets and the odd one is popped in the boot, legs tied, by the
owner. A big deal was made of this. Do you have any idea as to what
goes on in the Aussie Outback? Shearing teams regularly buy the odd sheep from farmers for meat. Those sheep have their legs tied,
are popped in the boot and taken away for meat supplies.