Imagine that Australia had lunatic Christians who fired rockets into Indonesia from Darwin and our weak Govt did nothing about it.The UN would be damning us as barbic ferals.

Syria,Iran and Hezbollah want to see Israel wiped off the planet.These religious nutters only get away with this foul behaviour becase the rest of the world depends upon it's oil.

It is time to develop nuclear and clean coal technologies and get off our oil addiction.

Let the Middle East fester in their religious ignorant hate filled barbarity.We don't need them

Strewth - <Can't the abuser be reformed?>

Depends on whom you regard as the abuser. Israel controls one tenth of 1% of Middle Eastern lands. Its enemies control the other 99% plus. Debate on this topic is pointless because Islamic leaders have declared on occasions too numerous to count that their aim is the utter destruction of Israel and that there is no room for negotiation of any kind. So what’s to debate? I don’t know how compassionate I would feel towards people who questioned my very right to exist and who would joyfully kill me at the first opportunity.

Hezbollah could always hand over the kidnapped soldiers and stop making attacks on Israel but the Hezbollah manifesto states:

"Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated. We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity."

Does this organization sound open to any kind of negotiation? I don’t think so. Perhaps this is why Israel has lost patience – it’s impossible to live in peace with people who wish for your obliteration. Perhaps Israelis have simply stopped caring what their enemies think.

Keith,

Yes it did once belong to the French mandate. That is until they backed the Vichy/Nazi regime and lost out bigtime to 7th Div 2nd AIF in the second world war. In fact both of my grandfather's took part in that little engagement, 31st Bat'n, now Royal Queensland Regiment. Under the laws of war it then passed to British Control (as it was conquered, in no uncertain terms). I suggest that as Moshe Dayan led them into Lebanon & Syria, he had much greater ownership of them in 1973 than any Lebanese or Syrian claimant. (FACT: He lost his eye in the bombardment of Lebanon in the 2nd World War, while attached to the British Navy to point out targets).

As I am descended from my grandparents, does this mean that I have sufficient historical attachment to lay claim to this parcel of land (think MABO (No.2))? I'd rent it out to each side in turn, you beauty.

See the bizzare end's that come of invoking history?

Inshallah

2bob

Keith, while we are at it, you make the mistake of taking only one view of history.

Let us examine a particularly pertinent event in the early days of the State of Israel, Deir Yassin:

The unashameadly biased view adopted by Irgun, on the Etzel website:

http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac17.htm

The equally unashamedly biased, but diametrically opposed view on the Deir Yassin Org website:

http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

Personally I prefer the historically accurate position that this event got out of hand, through a combination of ill-trained, inexperienced adventurer's on the Irgun side, vicious house to house combat, the use of high explosives (especially mortars & grenades) in a built up area, the continuing seige of the Jeuresalem road, the fact that many villages took part in such firing, and the fact that it was a defended village, with women & children left to assist the defender's. However, and whatever the truth of the matter, the effect of 100 deaths had an effect out of all proportion to the casualties caused. The villager's ran away, and were thus disposessed under the existing laws of armed conflict.

Israel is dropping pamphlets to prevent the recurrence of such a scenario, by advising people of the fact that they are coming and to leave. but, given the capacity of the enemy to stay in order to shield the fighters, I have a bad feeling that it will happen again. But, Israel has to act, and will act, if they stay many will be martyrs.

Inshallah

2bob

2bob

So what about Shaba Farms incursion by the Israelis?

Does your assessment of the unashamedly biased views propounded by the Israeli journalists of Haartz and blatant propaganda repeatedly ascribed to the Israeli military lead you to 'fess up' and accept you were completely wrong.
You will of course note that an unashamedly biased view of any Palestinian has been reported nowhere.

But of course you wouldn't need that would you...after all the Israeli's must be telling you all the truth you need for you to make your assessment. Of course you'd be able to claim you've based your assessment on an unashamedly biased but beautifully balanced view of history.

Balls!

And ultimately the crux of the problem is this. People such as youself continue make such statements about ownership through conquest and the laws of war. These stupidities are the basis of the Israeli dreams to occupy all of Palestine and the reason the Palestinians have been denied and are still being denied a Nation State.

Solve those two details and the mid east will soon find peace.

Perhaps you'd like to join entheuastically with David-Boaz and help champion his final solution to the Palestinian question.

Martin would be so pleased at the pair of you. He'd be cheering you on from his throne in hell. Your very decent Grandfathers would be spinning in their graves.

You should take a look at the map of Palestine after it was partitioned and compare it to a current map of the mid-east. That would give you another view to challenge your unashamedly biased view of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

This will help.

Note all Palestinians were expelled by the Israelis from the vast majority of the proposed Arab areas after the bitter civil war. Read also the independant views expressed. Hopefully it will open your eyes to the unashamedly biased historical land-grabbing antic's of the so innocent and defensively minded Israelis.

Sarcasm?...yep probably tinged with contempt too.

Dear Keith
much as I sympathize with your valiant attempt to reach some kind of 'just & fair' conclusion to this mess, -history is bigger.

Have a read of the events leading up to 1948, the various waves of Jewish migration, the Arab attitude to them, the battles etc...
Then, ask yourself regarding the partition plan:

"Would this REALLY have solved the issue" ?

If you answer in the affirmative, I have to re-classify you into the same basket of political naivity as dear Marilyn :)

Given that ALL of us live on stolen land, and that ALL of us maintain that land by FORCE (whether you call that force 'police' or army or the 'rule of law'...err.. thats OUR law)..its still maintained only by force.

It mystifies me that some of you bleeding hearts don't 'get'this.

My "Final Solution" is very much expressed in compassionate language. Yes, it DOES involve 'ethnic cleansing' to a degree, yes it DOES involve re-shaping the whole area, but think mate....think of the alternative.

All you are doing is condemning Israel=Bad, Arabs=Good+victims.

You seem also to neglect the massive expulsions and ethnic cleansing which partly PRODUCED Israel when Jews were driven by either fear or guns from surrounding Arab countries.

Bottom line, whichever side one argues, one can find 'injustice'....

Which of course leads to....'how' can we solve the problem by the best big picture means ?

I've made proposals, which I've also sent to Zionist organizations and the Jerusalem post, (in a more comprehensive form than posted here). But all I see from most of you is:

"Reverse History".. well ..good for one, good for all :) ready to go an live in a humpy while an Indigenous person occupies your farm or whatever ? If your not prepared to reverse YOUR history, then chill out on raging against Israel to reverse theirs.