dee said ...

"According to The Malaysia Star:

'Each Muslim preacher who marries an orang asli (indigenous) woman and naturally converts her as part of renewed efforts to propagate Islam among the 3,000-odd community in the state will be offered RM10,000. State Religious Affairs committee chairman Hassan Mahamood (PAS – Tawang) said the same incentive was applicable if the preacher was a Muslim woman who took an orang asli husband.'"

dee, when was the last time you were in Malaysia? Can you provide us with the context of the report? Or alternately, the URL?

dee, are you aware that PAS is only in charge of 1 state govt in Malaysia? Are you also aware that PAS lost most of its seats in the last election?

But I guess these facts mean nothing to those insistent on demonising their fellow Australians. Yesterday Catholics were demonised. Today it is Muslims. Perhaps tomorrow dee, coach and the monoculturalist brigade will demonise Jews.

dee, you are trying to prove that 1.2 billion Muslims are a bunch of blood-sucking vampires out to take over the world. Yet all you have provided is isolated anecdotes, always out of any sensible context.

I have seen your posts on other blogs and forums. I've concluded that you simply hate Islam and you hate Muslims. Why not just come out and say it? Otherwise, I challenge you to find a single nice thing to say about Islam and/or Muslims.

This forum was intended to discuss Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a man who hated Muslims. Your constant rants against Muslims show that you have much in common with Zarqawi and other al-Qaida operatives.

Good morning everybody,

Reason, thanks a lot for your positive response.

You asked, "do you believe that the killings by Islamist for Islam is a good thing?".

Do not kill, do not steal, blah blah these are bricks we inherit from Abrahamic tradition. In war, Islam does not allow killing civilians, monasteries and any attacks that only wound the enemies but did not killing him and blah blah.

But bfore we get lost into detail I think what happens today (especially in the Middle East) way more complex than such approach of 'hey, they kill us in the name of Allah, our assertions were correct, look into Malaysia etc etc'. It was oversimplified or perhaps irrelevant.

In the case of Iraqis, well, you witnessed bombs poured to their inhabited cities, destroying houses and lifes, left their dear relatives turned into dust: war ruins lifes, destroying morality. Such attack was not conducted in the name of God but in the name of 9/11, Bali bomb, Madrid bomb, nuclear bombs etc, yet it could not alter the essence of war and atrocities.

Then naturally they were responding whatsoever, its natural and predictable. Islam did not make them so, it was only something they pick to defend their last existence.

Even if one attack a Budhist community they must prepared for some statues thrown to their faces when they marching into their cities.

Of course , I dont want make you displeased, nor I have lost my balance. I just invite you to let Hegelian logics (dialectics) work a moment to calibrate our insight to be more precise.

Viewing a social phenomenon with only religious motives as explanation never fit to reality. Even Socrates would agree this.

You further asked, "Do you see Islam and Christianity existing in peace together in the future?
Can Islam and Christianity exist without conflict over who is ‘right’ and who is the more ‘righteous’ follower?

Absolutely.
Religious tolerance already exist, for centuries. We could be even better.

Irf - The fact that PAS lost is not my point. Extremist Islam is creeping in all through Asia – see the recent murders in Thailand. This is just another example of a worldwide phenomenom ie, Islam trying to get the numbers to rule. Islamic leaders themselves say that this is their aim, why do you expect me to disbelieve them?

<.. insistent on demonising their fellow Australians>

We have had this discussion before. I am not demonizing my fellow Australians, I am rightly angry with militant brands of Islam being imported into Australia; with hate literature on sale in the Muslim community; with Muslim so-called ‘leaders’ and spokesmen’ continually making excuses for terrorism and labeling anyone who questions this as ‘a Muslim hater’. These people are not my 'fellow Australians'. I will continue to protest against the importation of religious hatred into Australia no matter what I am called.

<isolated anecdotes>?

I think not. Every day there is a negative report concerning the behaviour of Muslims. Today, a family in Denmark was convicted of murder for an ‘honour killing’. This kind of behaviour is neither isolated nor an anecdote. Don’t demonise me for noting the behaviour of too many of your fellow Muslims.

< I challenge you to find a single nice thing to say about Islam and/or Muslims.>

I have already challenged you to tell us the positives of Islam. So - You first.

<you have much in common with Zarqawi and other al-Qaida operatives.>

I have absolutely nothing in common with murderous head-chopping religious fanatics. Have you ever heard the saying:

‘The best defence is offence’?

Your stupid and insulting remark is a perfect example. You don’t wish to acknowledge the sociopathic actions of too many Muslims, so you demonise those who refuse to accept those actions or to make excuses for them.

Irfan reminds us that:

“to discuss Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, A MAN WHO HATED MUSLIMS”.

Zarqawi was a hero worshiped by millions of muslims. That is an irrational statement Irfan – once again you are blinded by your own prejudice.

Zarqawi like any good Islamic herd-leader was doing the right thing by Islam. He did not set up to killing other sunni muslims only the inferior sort, the non-jihadist cowards and the illegitimate Shia.

In the words of Zarqawi himself, he stated that his enemies were :

1. The Americans

These, as you know, are the most cowardly of God's creatures. They are an easy quarry, praise be to God. We ask God to enable us to kill and capture them to sow panic among those behind them and to trade them for our detained sheikhs and brothers.

2. The Kurds

These are a lump [in the throat] and a thorn whose time to be clipped has yet to come. They are last on the list, even though we are making efforts to harm some of their symbolic figures, God willing.

3. Soldiers, Police, and Agents

These are the eyes, ears, and hands of the occupier, through which he sees, hears, and delivers violent blows. God willing, we are determined to target them strongly in the coming period before the situation is consolidated and they control arrest[s].

4. The Shi`a

These in our opinion are the key to change. I mean that targeting and hitting them in [their] religious, political, and military depth will provoke them to show the Sunnis their rabies, and bare the teeth of the hidden rancour working in their breasts. If we succeed in dragging them into the arena of sectarian war, it will become possible to awaken the inattentive Sunnis as they feel imminent danger and annihilating death at the hands of these Sabeans.

Despite their weakness and fragmentation, the Sunnis are the sharpest blades, the most determined, and the most loyal …
Were it not for the enfeebled Sufi shaykhs and [Muslim] Brothers, people would have told a different tale.

dee, the onus is on you to prove that every single one of the 1.2 billion Muslims around the world is involved in your imaginary international conspiracy to import hatred into Australia.

That means you must prove I am part of that conspiracy. You must also prove that Richard Kerbaj (a reporter from The Australian) is also part of that conspiracy. You must also prove that current and former journalists and writers from the Herald, the Age, the Daily Telegraph and other newspapers are part of that conpiracy.

You must also prove that "Crazy" John Ilhan and Ahmed Fahour (CEO of the NAB) are part of that conspiracy. Not to mention Abul Rizvi who enforces our immigration program for DIMA and Senator Vanstone.

Once you can prove that we are all in this together, you might be taken seriously. You have suggested all Muslims are in this evil conspiracy. Now is your chance to prove it.

So let's start with me, shall we? Please provide irrefutable evidence that I am importing hatred into Australia.

Hi Jelata.
I completely agree that the bombing and invasion of Iraq was wrong. That the US and its allies believed their ‘pin-point’ attacks would be victim free is ludicrous. That any person can justify the death of innocents as an acceptable by-product of the unprovoked attack on Iraq is inhuman and dishonest. Hussein had no delivery system capable of threatening anywhere outside the Middle East so the US and allies cannot justify the attack.

I also agree that viewing social interaction through a religious veil is unrealistic and dishonest. Religion can never be substantiated beyond faith. Would you agree that faith is best kept to ones self while ones life and character is the best advertisement for a faith system?

I’m also glad you agree that the religions of the world can live in peace together.

In my mind, it is a sure sign of insecurity that one must declare their faith superior to another’s. If a person cannot believe in peace they must be looking for validation – through the conversion or denigration of another – it helps them feel right about what they are doing. It also exposes them for the insecurity and doubt that they contain.

Another question – How is society (in the global sense) going to stop the inciting of intolerance and disrespect that both Christian and Muslim clerics are propagating?

For my part I would suggest that religious instruction be restricted to preaching the benefits and tenants of one’s own religion while it would be unlawful to compare any one religion to another. This would ensure that only positive things are said (I hope) and that no denigration of another faith is easily perpetrated.

However I see a problem with this in that it is a form of censorship and denial of free speech. And of course how does one regulate such thing? A dream to be sure…

Irfan.
I am glad you still tramp these roads. With all the ludicrous statements made over and over I would have thought you’d have become worn down. Keep writing for peace and tolerance.