SHONGA I have nothing against you personaly please beleive me we could in real life be mates.
But lay of the idea that my AWU and the right faction of the ALP is the reason we are not in power.
PLEASE! its just so untrue, the ALP [and I will vote only for them] is made up of factions and self interest groups.
We as a group try to sell our product to the voters, to think they vote conservative because we are too right wing is madness.
I vote and belong to the only party that wants to reform IR,and the only party that cares ,truely cares about ordinary people.
Your posts constantly insult my faction ,my union and my views, I have trouble seeing any difference between you and a exteme right conservative.
New Labor? if thats the only way to govern yes but any Labor goverment includeing the Hawke Keiting ones you love to undermine is a better option than any conservative one.
No man should be forced to strike tao is right, no million marchers will do so this time.
Bosses have all the power but a well put together letter each week to Howards mob or the press is as good.
Solidarity ,great word if you mean it!

I must stop riseing to the bait cast in front of me by people full of yesterdays ideas.
This weekend will tell me if the ALP can remove John Howard, the NSW conference of the party.
If I could I would want a plan not too far from the authors laid on the table, yes throw your stones at me but reality is its too late for roll back.
And without doupt a new way has to be Labor and the unions plan, AWA,s are indeed here to stay, but unions can do better.
Already dreadfull things have been done to workers but if Labor is again defeated?
If we present the voters with other than true balanced reform we are bound to fail.
Unions can without Howards handcuffs sell ourselves, but only an ALP goverment can unlock those.
I shudder in real fear! that this weekend may see our defeat confirmed over a year out from an election.
And if unions do not get 100% support, we will be beaten.
If leadership is not fully debated now again we can not win.
Solidarity? no party first for me, Kim has to go he truely must go, is the fate of all who work in Australia to be left to him?
Can it be he is waiting for this weekend to show us form we have not yet seen?[you can bet on it!]
Unions will come out of this stronger and I have no fear of change in fact welcome it if it brings a fair go in the workplace to members.
One weekend in 52 but after this weekend you can expect to know who will win next year and who will lead the ALP.

Belly,
It is unimportant who leads the ALP in the sense that it will be someone from the right wing, in other words, just a different face, same weak policies for working people. You seem to take my critizisms personally comrade, I won't have a bad word to say about any union organiser who has his members best interests at heart as you do, rather it is the philosophy of the leadership of the awu, and the people they "install" into safe Labor seats, who share the same pathetic views concerning average, ordinary working people that I strongly object to.

Queensland had an enquiry a few years ago into corruption into the Qld Branch, the former State secretary was forced to vacate his parliamentry seat, a few of his awu faction mates had to go as well, guess who ended up as the National Assistant Secretary? And has since gone on to be an adviser to a NSW State Minister, yes correct, the same corrupt awu right wing faction former Qld politician.

Belly if anything I feel embarresed for you, being part of this organisation, without really knowing what happens at the top, I do know comrade, and its not pleasant, especially for low income working class families, I suggest you check the ALP website go through the shadow ministery and see how many of them have had a working background, you will be surprised. My point of course is if you haven't lived the life, how on Earth can you truely represent people who do?

It is because I have lived the life that I think as I do.
Have no doupts I know hunger, how could one of 16 kids not?
I now the fear of seeing a landlord just walking down the front path, the constant moveing of home.
I know the shame of watching my union delegate father haveing spit run down his face as he handed out Labor how to votes on election day.

As a 15 year old kid, already a near 3 year veteran of the workforce I joined the AWU

Look back on my posts often miss jointed but always in my view true, sluggs always existed in every union, some still do in the AWU and every union.
Within the last 12 months I have been carpeted for saying just this about one of ours, yet I will never stop saying it!
We exist for members nothing else, nothing.
Up untill now I have not gone to print on other unions, you make it a must that I do, hidden in union ofices ALL union ofices is a wish in fact a drive to steal other unions members.
This wish ignores the 75% who are not members! all that unplowed ground we could farm!
And halo,s got left out of our kit bags!.
Once all 3 unions adressed a 400 strong mass meeting,we faced a dreadfull boss.
At meetings end as the others cars left I met 18 site delegates.
We marched into the site bosses ofice and by solidarity won tool kits for all riggers, not my members and near $500 in back pay for 116 men, not my members.
It came to pass that one of those 2 other unions was in fact doeing a gutless sad deal!and EBA! that gave away more than it should have with that grubby mob! who wanted to keep me away!

Belly,
When I said if you haven't lived the life, I was refering to the ALP politicians. I agree with you some branches of some unions are bloody terrible, however the awu leadership of shorten and ludwig are consistantly terrible, and most unhelpfull to working families.

SHONGA you wrote:

“Trouble-with-tao's-outlook-is-change-cannot-be-achieved-in-isolation,-Unions-of-workers-are-needed,-as-well-as-a-"fair-dinkum"-workers-political-party,-which-these-days-does-not-exist.-Your-suggestions-for-policy-changes-were-also-very-good,-the-problem-is,-if-people-like-you-and-tao-and-I-can-figure-it-out,-why-can't-the-ALP,-answer....they-are-not-connected-to-working-people,-because-they-are-too-far-to-the-right,-thus-are-unable-to-know-what-we-know.-Yet-we-are-still-expected-to-vote-ALP-because-they-are-the-lesser-of-two-evils,-wouldn't-be-great-to-vote-Labor-because-they-actually-represented-our-aspirations,-instead-of-representing-a-diluted-version-of-the-Liberal-Party.”

The thing is that the ALP doesn’t represent our aspirations.

If you accept the capitalist framework, the inevitable logic of which is to minimize production costs in order to maximize profits, you must accept everything that flows from it. You say wages must increase, they say if wages increase they can’t be profitable so will just shut down or move off shore. You say the workplace should be safer, they say they can’t afford to implement safety measures so will shut down or move off shore. The ALP accepts the underlying ideology. It must therefore accept that working conditions must be slashed to ensure that we are “competitive” and “productive”. That is why the ALP can’t “figure it out”.

It is not enough to blame it on right wing factions in the Party, because the entire party accepts that workers can be exploited. Any difference between them is based on the degree of exploitation they believe is acceptable. The degeneration of Social Democratic parties is a world-wide phenomenon, why is that?

You say a “fair dinkum” workers political party is needed. You are right. But the aspirations of working people can only be realised by reorganizing society and production on the basis of social need, not profit. As long as workers accede to the ruling ideology that we all exist to make profit for the minority, and that profit is the most important thing, the drive for profit will inevitably result in the erosion of our conditions. There is no way around it.

Workers need to build their own party whose political line is solely based on workers interests, not on ameliorating the excesses of capitalism. They can’t “take back” the ALP because it is part of, and agrees with, the system which exploits them.

Workers do the work – they produce the wealth – they are entitled to decide what is done with it - and they are entitled to all of the benefits of it. Any party which doesn’t fight for that isn’t a workers party.