Shonga if most shared your views it would condemn Australia to conservative goverment forever.
Labor can look back with pride to Hawk and Keiting who took us back to power so soon after Australia rejected the ALP.
It was in no small mesure those famillys and working Australians who both rejected then voted for us.
And surely it is those same folk who have kept Howard in the lodge.
Now the next step in Labors evalution awaits, reform in IR and so much more must come via a reformist Labor goverment.
No greens lead goverment will EVER rule Australia, only Labor offers goverment to non conservatives IR reform is step one .
The refomed policy must be execptable to most Australians and it will be but some unable to see change is needed will slug Labor again with the too conservative tag, far from it! Labor can change nothing from this side of the house and owes it to those Howard has victimised to win elections.

Belly,
No good voting Labor in to do the same as Howard, only in a smaller way. If what you are saying is "the ALP can't change" then they don't deserve to govern. It's time for a new mindset, it's time for the ALP to come back to the centre of politics, instead of being another less conservative, conservative party.

If they can't why would I vote foe another mini-Howard Government? Nothing to be gained there! We need a party that represents working people, not the big multi-national corporations. Big business already have the Liberal Party to help them, working people need likewise. If the Labor Party can't or won't do the job, what working person would vote for them? Not me or anyone I know.

We are drifting from the thread so my future posts will stay on it.
But I need to tell you as one of too many hungry kids I grew up with Labor and for so very long wanted what I think you want from them.
No rich man still I now understand the centre of Australian politics is far to the right of Socialism.
Labor is on its way to a new Labor position and never can you convince me Labor as it is now would inflict workchoices on us, or ofshore detention of children.
IR reform will startle you as it becomes clear even to me a proud trade union official that we can not roll back but we can craft a fair system with a real choice and real protection for all who work.
Your dream for my ALP is unrealistic and can never be acheaved.
A majority only can elect goverments, and beleave me middle of the real road voters are not always working class.
Can you not see the thought this country would be governed only for some[unless you are John Howard ] is ofensive?

Belly,
Yes it is offensive to me that working people are being left out, however it is just as real to me that the Labor Party is not offering an alternative, except more of the same, at a slower pace. Both major parties represent big business, and I will not vote for big business. It would appear that I will have to vote Green, as you hold out no prospect that a Labor Party Government will ever return to its roots, the Australian working people, which it was established to represent, but has long since wandered. I bet the top people in the Labor Party are scratching their heads, thinking "how can we win" all they have to do is design policy around the working men and women of Australia, sadly I bet they see this as a difficult exercise. Hawke and Keating sucked up to the rich, and average working families suffered a 13% decrease in real wages over their time in Government. Howard takes the population for fools, are so far they are proving him correct. Labor offers no solutions...

Belly,would be an AWU official i guess. An ALP minus them would be refreshing.An industrial system minus them undercutting progressive active Unions would be refreshing. Perhaps new IR laws could contain KPI benchmarks to maintain registration, as an Industrial Organisation.This may even lead to Union membership growth.

hedgehog,
What a brilliant idea, the AWU nd KPI's that is. I would also like to see KPI's for everyone, including managers, posted on walls so that everyone knew, what everyone else was supposed to be doing, and also an anual independent appraisal of all jobs, including the bosses job. Perhaps the boss could do the appraisal of the workforce, followed by the union's appraisal of the bosses job?