Tao, I would have to agree with hedgehog and shonga. I hope you and others hear there message.

Tao come stand with me in silence at the Ruderford riot memorial.
A miner shot dead by police and army thrown against men who stood for union values.
You may not say unions plan to betray workers and expect to be respected, you indeed have no plan, you steal the dreams others found to be nightmares generations ago.
Recycle past mistakes that killed and imprisoned workers not anything else.
Labor must be elected before it can change anything.
It will not be elected unless in the middle of the road, we can hope for higher interest rates, fuel prices or even that those workers[ a growing number] who are non unionist will at least come on board, but we must face facts elections are not won by selling policys voters refuse to buy.
Strange hedghog execpt for factionalism you will not find me different , nore do my increaseing members find fault, that is an acheavement while numbers fall mine rise.
24/7 my life is the union 24/7 its thinking you must NEVER knowingly let a member down.
But how long will it last? growing members? so many of this generation are not fighting, prapred to give up the gains of so many past heros.
I do not think you or I are able to start threads here but would like 3 new debates, how to be a union oficial, how to rebuild the union movement, and what is your view of IR reform?
By that I mean what will Labor offer? what would you want or expect?
Its time to develope Labors plan.

Belly,
Must we develop Labor's plan for Industrial Relations? Your mates Bill Shorten and Bill Ludwig will continue to run Labors plan on IR, that is no plan at all, scrap Howards Workchoices, and then.... I have not heard a murmur from any Labor politician to better workers conditions, which is why we need more radicals in the party.
If we settle for the awu's version of reality, we will continue to head in a reverse direction....

hedgehog and shonga,

Why would I join an organisation whose platform and policies (what little there are of them) I fundamentally disagree with in order to whiteant them, or bring them around to my way of thinking? Should I join the Catholic Church to try and convince them of the merits of atheism, attempt to change them from the ground up with an influx of atheists, try to become the Pope? If I suggested such a thing was viable you would think me deluded. Would you join the Liberal Party to convince them of the merits of collective bargaining?

What you are suggesting is equally far-fetched. The ALP has betrayed workers over and over and over again, yet you somehow think you can just get rid of the right wing, install a few “lefts” and that will resolve everything. To use hedgehog’s own words “your absolute reticence to accept the bleeding obvious” about the ALP’s pedigree is disturbing, if not revealing. You have both cited examples of the complete disconnect between the upper echelons of the Party, and its former social base, the workers. There are complex reasons for this phenomenon which cannot be explained away by blaming it on “hi-jacking” by the AWU. The rightward turn of Social Democratic parties is a worldwide phenomenon, of which the degeneration of the ALP is just one example.

The ALP is cannot be revived or reformed for the following reasons:

* Capitalism is an economic system in which a minority of people (capitalists) own the vast majority of the land, the means of production (or the tools by which the entire human race sustains itself) and previously stored labour (capital).

* The rest (the working class) who don’t own anything are forced to sell their labour to produce goods (including the food, clothing, housing etc) by which the human race is sustained.

* Capitalists pay the lowest price for the labour and sell the goods produced by that labour back to those who produce (the working class) it for the highest price, and pocket the difference.

cont...

...cont

* Capital (or those who own it), constantly seeking higher profits, will inevitably seek out lower costs of production – lower wages, lower taxes, lower working conditions, less social benefits like health care, education etc, lax environmental laws.

* Nation states, and workers within them, must compete with each other in order to attract capital i.e. lower the costs of production in their own countries. Production is now global, and capital is highly mobile so there is no way to stop this process. Living conditions for the majority in industrialized countries must deteriorate.

* From the above, you can see that capitalism is hostile to the interests of the vast majority of people, whose interests would be better served if the means of production were owned by the majority – the people who do the work. This would require production to be re-organised on the basis of social human need, not profit.

* The only social force which is able to carry out this task is the international working class - they are the ones that produce the wealth and they are the ones who have the collective power to re-appropriate it. To do so they must politically mobilize themselves independently of capitalist interests. Therefore they must become politically conscious, and must be told the truth (as above).

* The ALP and the unions defend the capitalist system.

* The ALP and the unions offer illusions to workers that the objective process of capitalism can be ameliorated by small “wins”. Yet any gains made by workers will eventually be eroded by the objective process of capitalism. They obscure the truth from workers.

* The ALP and the unions channel the legitimate aspirations of the working class back into the capitalist parliamentary system – tying them to the capitalist interests.

* The ALP and the unions are hostile to the interests of the working class.

And for your information, I was at the protest marches. I am well aware that my working conditions are a result of previous struggles of the working class, which the ALP has progressively undermined.

Tao, a Marxist. What a surprise. Thanks for the Economics 101 lesson.
When u leave University and (Resistance)you might eventually join the 'struggle'.
It is called the 'struggle' because thats what it is. Day in and day out. One step forward often two back. Trying to maintain dignity and quality of life for working people.Trying to restrain the excesses of the capitalist pigs. Battling the press the courts and piss weak little cynics like you.
When u advise me of a more efficient way to participate in the struggle i will be there.
Until then stand at the mirror and check that your beret is tilted just so. Contemplate battling the rich and powerfull without denograting those that have been trying for years. U can attack the AWU and SDA because there track record is clear and odious. Until then enjoy the weekend on me.