Bozwaz (I'm sorry, can't help my dyslexia), you say that you're "an observer of history and current affairs" when you're really a distorter, misrepresenter and stuffer up (eg 395AD-Turkish Palestine??) of same. I assume that what you mean by "last physical manifestation of the melting process" is the colonization of Palestine by Zionist settlers from Europe. However, that has nothing to do with any genuine sharing of the place with the indigenous people, but with expelling, excluding and oppressing them. And by any standards of decency that's not acceptable to me. You're one hell of a muddle-headed guy, but muddle-headedness doesn't even begin to explain the sheer primitive idiocy of your statement: "Could it be that there is a litre or 2 of Arab Muslim blood flowing in your veins?" As though a concern for the underdog somewhere depends on one sharing the underdog's blood! I oppose Indonesia's colonization of West Papua, so I must have a litre or 2 of West Papuan blood? And tell me, Bozo, what the hell is "Muslim blood" and how does it differ from any other blood? If I were an Anglo of Muslim faith would I require a blood transfusion? And to answer your last question, no, if you are of "Him" then I am not of "Him".

My goodness Strewth *puts on the counselling garb*....

Turkish.. in 395= modern name for Asia Minor/Byzantine empire.

"Muslim blood" a clear reference to the possibility of you having more than a simple 'ethical' connection to and interest in the issue.

Underdog ? You have a point. Yuyutsu also has a compelling one, regarding all our ancestors which underlines your selective nature of sympathy. For me, you should be both outraged at and sympathetic for, because my ancestors were subject to the 'Highland Clearances' in Scotland, (thats the sympathy one) but I am here on land from which Aboriginal people were dispossessed from (Outrage).

In fact, one family just down the road are descended from the original settlers in this area. What about 'you' ? do you by any chance live on land from which indigenous Australians have been dispossessed from ? Your calls for justice for the Palestinians would ring a lot less hollow if you had already returned all the land (if any) you currently own and live on to the Aboriginals of your area. I'm sure with a bit of effort you could find them.

So, in conclusion you should be outraged at the Israelies, at me, and finally at yourself, for the same sins.

I struggle with the issue of land use, and ownership here in Australia, and I would love to find a way of reconciling with the Indigenous people of Melbourne for the many wrongs done to them by 'whites'. Perhaps when my existence is less hand to mouth, day by day survival I'll devote more time to this.

I don't know why your are so passionate about what is happening in Israel/Palestine, when there are so many unjust things happening much closer to home. Any explanation ? Perhaps you just hate Jews ?

Personally, I don't find much value in identifying with nationalism per se, because it is fraught with all the machievellian evils we are all too aware of. The limit of my 'nationalism' would be for survival but certainly not for teritorial gain. I'm amibivalent about our E.Timor plans on this basis.

Booz, Turkey/Byzantium - it's all one big blur to you, terminating with the Big Bang of Armageddon, right? Now, down to basics. Your ignorance of the difference between the current circumstances of indigenous Australians and that of indigenous Palestinians is as profound as your religious beliefs are shallow. Let me spell it out for you: Australian indigenes, although generally economically disadvantaged and subjected to racism by some Australians, are NOT a)subject to apartheid legislation as is the Palestinian Arab population of Israel; b)under military occupation as is the Palestinian Arab population of the West Bank; c) stateless as are the Palestinian Arab refugees. Your profound ignorance of these people also extends to falsely assuming that the return of the Palestinian refugees to their homeland will automatically be at the expense of the non-indigenous Jewish population. As with South Africa, Israel's inclusion of the Palestinian Arab refugees as full and equal citizens within its borders would turn it from an exclusionary and discriminatory Jewish state for Jews the world over into a binational state for all of its citizens, Jews, Christians, Muslims, whatever. Not that that would mean anything to you as it would interfere with your religious fantasies. And please spare us the hypocrisy of your "struggling with the issue of land ownership here in Australia". Such things have never been on your agenda, Bozo. The "Muslim blood" bit was low, but the "perhaps you just hate Jews" is lower still. So for you, the only possible basis for supporting Palestinian rights is if you've got Muslim blood or you're an anti-Semite? Is that it? Your views are beneath contempt.

Strewth, you ignore one simple fact:

Arabs have no interest in living together with Jews, except as a temporary tactical rhetoric to render them helpless so that subsequently they can be killed or expelled like the Christians of the West Bank.

It is most important for Arabs to preserve their culture without outside influences just as it is important for the Israelis to preserve their own culture (although Israeli culture is overall more modern and blended with European culture). Who are you to ask to force both people to give up their lifestyle in favour of some western melting-pot of your imagination?

Arab leaders declared many times their intention to throw all Jews into the sea. They have sided with Hitler in the past and there is no reason to stop believing them now, and Islam would never tolerate the existence of "infidels" in the middle east, except as an underclass called "Dhimmis" (who are humiliated, overtaxed, unequal by law, must wear identifying garments, and it is allowable for Moslems to kill them from time to time for fun).

To your comparison:

a) There are over a million Arabs living in Israel: they are full Israeli citizens and not discriminated against or subject to any appartheid despite the inclination of a significant number of them to undermine the state. They are well represented in the Israeli parliament.

b) Israel is not interested in occupying Arab areas and has attempted several times, and is still trying, to lift its military occupation of Arab population in the west-bank and Gaza. In fact there are currently no Israelis whatsoever in the Gaza strip (perhaps journalists). The problem is that the Arabs would not allow it, and use those territories to launch terror and missile attacks on Israel, forcing Israel to re-enter again and again.

c) The Palestinians could have a state long ago and are free to declare statehood any day - Israel offered it to them, but they don't want it because it will make them responsible for their aggressions and would interfere with their dream to own the whole country.

Onya Strewthy....
long on huff and puff (with a bit of bile mixed in).. long on character assassination and insult (booz ? I'll add that one to my growing list :) but short on actual content/response.

I'd almost call that a skillful way of avoiding the tough question if it was not so obvious mate..

My questions about a biological connection or anti semitism are quite valid and constitute exploring your possible motivation re the Palestinian issue.

By the way, I'm married to an indigenous person from Borneo, who's people have been and are subject to many of the same land issues the Palestinians are experiencing.

Let me list some important questions requiring serious answers.

1/ Do YOU currently live on land which was taken from Aboriginals ?
2/ If yes, don't you think this might detract from your 'holy rage' ?

You point out various differences between Aboriginals and Palestinians, but then, you leap to 'They can all live happily ever after'...which.. well, to put it mildly would be a 'first' for tribes in most areas, but in that area it would border on the miraculous.

Things might be ok for a while, but you are fogetting:

a) The Hamas charter which sees ALL that land under Islamic rule.
b) The huge difference in fertility between Arabs and Jews
c) The inevitable consequence of a) and b) above.

Donna Jacobs on another thread speaks about 'stories'. One biblical one which fully explains the situation between Arabs and Jews is that of Abraham and Lot. Gen 12

"And Abraham and Lots herdsmen began to fight, because of lack of pasture for both their flocks"

That is "it" in a nutshell. You can never avoid this. When Abraham gave Lot the choice of land, he chose the BEST (and he saw that all the Jordan valley was fertile and chose that).
Abraham is the exception, people tend to view life thru their own tribal/cultural/family eyes, as did Lot while Abraham trusted God would work it out.

I can't see the Jews or Arabs today are any different from Lot.

What's up, Yuyu, feeling left out? A fabulous farrago of fables, fella. Let's choose an oldie but a goldie. How about: "Arab leaders declared many times their intention to throw all Jews into the sea." Document it. I particularly enjoyed the fable about Israel, heroically "trying to lift its military occupation of Arab population in the west-bank [sic] and Gaza" but forced to remain there by "the Arabs" who have nothing better to do [Must be that Muslim blood!] than "use those territories to launch terror and missile attacks on Israel" while simultaneously "threatening to colonize the world" and preparing to march "into Australia with their green Jihad banners", crying "convert to Islam or die!" I hope you're checking under your bed day and night, Yuyu. No? They may already be there!
And dear old Bamboozle: I'm shocked.Shocked! You mean you're actually "married to one such [Borneoan] person" with land problems, but can't get up enough "holy rage" on her behalf? But I guess if you're stuck out there in La La Land with Lot, Abraham, Jacob and Esau that'd be the last thing on your 'mind'.