Strewth,

I am glad that you enjoy reading my post.

Here are some references about "throwing the Jews to the sea".

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
http://www.travelbrochuregraphics.com/extra/new_fellow_traveling.htm
http://www.netanyahu.org/eyeonmedcnni.html
http://www.isracast.com/Transcripts/territories_trans.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Evolver_of_Borg/Draft_Article
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/what-the-fight-in-israel-is-all-about.htm

Perhaps not all Palestinians want to throw the Jews to the sea. I am sure many of them would prefer to have a life over sending terrorists and rockets across the border, but only a few would dare to say that in public for fear of their and their families' life, because in their brute-oriented society it is only the extremists that can dictate policy.

Israel also has its share of extremists - but they are a minority and unlike the Arabs, Israel is a true democracy and in last week's elections the people of Israel have stated clearly their intent to not wait any longer, but withdraw from the Palestinian areas even without Palestinian consent or a peace agreement. Time would tell to what extent Israel will be allowed to withdraw this time, or are the Arabs going to force it back into those cursed territories once again in self-defence.

You did however ignore my main point, that while those two people do not wish to live together, you are trying to impose the 'superior' Australian model of cultural "melting pot" on both people who wish to continue preserving and living by their culture and heritage. Isn't this a subtle form of colonialism?

Yuyu...welcome back :)

Strewth... of course you realize that if I post enough you will run out of variations on my nick and start to repeat yourself :)

Hey.. you rip into Ted for not answering your questions but you are not answring MINE..

Repeated for allllll to see.

QUESTION 1
"do you, or do you not, live now in land which was formerly Aboriginal" ?

Regarding my wifes situation. Her people have lost pretty much all their traditional land, with the exception of around a mile either side of the waterways, and a distance 'one days walk' from existing land. The politicians (Muslims) with the help of the rich Chinese (who they are in bed with) share the spoils of stolen indigenous land by first taking the Timber, then planting large Oil palm plantations on the denuded land.

There are trade off's though. The country is pretty peaceful and stable and there is an increasing sense of national pride even among the indigenous. I tend to agree with their idea of a 'guided' democracy.

But Strewthy.. I'm a little concerned for u.. most of your posts are just woffle now, kinda emotive throw away lines..

Another question.. repeated again...

QUESTION 2

Do you really think the Muslim Arabs can live peacefull and happily under Israeli rule enjoying citizenship and equality ? given the fertility rates and nature of democracy ?
Are you not realllly saying 'Let them back to they can breed and vote Israel into Dhimmitude' ?

Sure sounds like it.

Romans 13 describe the role of the Emperor as a deterrant to the evildoer. Sometimes the Emporer IS the evildoer. Yes, sorting out humanity is not easy.

The Orthodox Jews may not be 'many' but politically/spiritually they are 'much'. The heart of Israel is Jerusalem. It runs too deep to deny this. We will all see how things pan out.

Not so fast, Yuyu. Asked to document an assertion, you do a google and come up with a gaggle of Zionist hasbara/hate sites. Document means in this case: Which Arab leaders said it? When? And where is it publicly recorded? (As in books/documents) "Those cursed territories" eh? How stupid of your Zionist heroes to have grabbed onto them in the first place and hung onto them for sooo long. Now, you seem to have, among others, a bee in your bonnet about the expression 'melting pot', but if you'd done your homework (ie read my earlier posts) you'd have seen it was a reference to Palestine down the centuries. Still, do you have a problem with Australia as a melting pot? Should Bozzles not have taken a Borneoan bride? Is your "heritage" or your blood so special it must not be contaminated? Who should we kick out now? Do I detect a hint of sarcasm in your reference to "the 'superior' Australian model of cultural 'melting pot'"? Let's import the superior Israeli model then. Who'll be top-dog? Who'll be underdog? Who'll be occupied? Who'll be expelled? I see Bozzles is clamouring for my attention: was Australia "formerly Aboriginal"? Absolutely! Is it now an apartheid state based on a division in law between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people? No. Are Aboriginals gunned down by the military/impeded by checkpoints/walled off/routinely tortured etc etc ? No. Bozo's perspective on his wife's people: robbed blind of their land, but hey, they've got "peace and stability". I wonder if he preaches to her how well off they are? I wonder if how Bozo would feel if he were dispossessed by some nice folks on a mission from God? And here's his second question: "Do you really think Muslim Arabs can live peacefully and happily under Israeli rule enjoying citizenship and equality"? Define "Israeli rule"? Apartheid state, as in Israel proper, or military rule as in the occupied territories?

Strewth,

Australia is Australia and Israel is Israel, there is nothing wrong with either having its own lifestyle, one as a melting pot - the other as uni-cultural.

It is true that Israel fell into this territory-trap in 1967: on the one hand Israel was attacked from there and had no choice but to temporarily conquer those territories to drive away the attacking armies, but it could and should have left them long ago. It is also true that while Israel's primary motive for staying in the territories was security, later came along extremist religious groups that took advantage of Israel's weak government to hijack those territories for their own purpose, eventually forcing the Israeli army deeper into that swamp to protect those initially-illegal settlements.

You should have no mistake that the majority of Israeli citizens hate those settlements and are struggling for Israel to get out, but it is not easy, does not happen overnight and lately brought Israel to the brink of a civil war.

The Arabs however, seem to rejoice about Israel's entrapment: their leaders are happy to sacrifice the ordinary Palestinians and care not for their suffering (just as they cared not in 1948 when they turned them into refugees), because it gives them browny points in their propaganda war against Israel, to which you fell prey yourself. Every time Israel attempts to pull out, they create new obstacles because they do not wish to lose the advantage of being looked as "oppressed victims".

Despite the fact that I oppose the occupation of Gaza & West Bank by Israel, so long as only the Israeli military was there, before the settlers came and messed up with their provocations, the Palestinians in the territories, both Moslems and Christians, experienced more prosperity and comfort than ever before or after. I really pity those still under Israeli occupation: East-Jerusalemites, especially Armenians, once Israel leaves.

Also, Arabs in Israel proper enjoy full and equal civil rights (perhaps more because they are not obliged to serve in the army, but those who do receive the same privilleges as Jews who do).

Dear Strewth......
the insults are still mounting...and the 'quality' of your posts is deteriorating into cyclic drivle mate.... I asked you the specific question about your current abode, "WHO'S LAND WAS IT" and you come back to me with 'apartied this, checkpoint that'..

You STILL have not answered it.

So, it casts serious credibility problems on all your posts. You keep coming back and back to a 'baddddd Israel this and that' to the point where one might take it that you cannot see the connection between 'wall's and 'prevention of murderous bombers'... which of course means we need to do some unravelling of your bigger position. Lets see where it leads and you can correct me where I diverge from reality.

1/ "Walls are BAD... (but what about homicide bombers?)
2/ 'Martyrs would not NEED to use such methods if the Israelies would leave 'occupied lands'.
3/ Israelies left Gaza and demolished settlements, and STILL the dogs send rockets at Israel using GAZA as a base !
4/ Oh..thats because they are still in the OTHER occupied lands.. West Bank etc...
5/ Does this change the fact that 'a little withdrawal' did not produce 'less attacks' ?
6/ So.. clearly if Israel left the West Bank, the Arabs would be happy ....right ? WRONG ! They would continue to attack until Jerusalem is in Islamic hands.
7/ All the other stuff you go on about is just window dressing. You need to really just focus on Jerusalem and solve that, you solve the lot.
8/ Hamas charter is clear enough and not ambiguous. They want 100% Islamic rule. Sorry, that is not going to happen, so why not get over it and try to make a new and peaceful life ?
9/ Annoy Israel 'enough' and they will forget the UN, the USA and simply ethnically cleanse the whole of the Palestinians.

Wifes land... they do ok :) Wet rice instead of slash/burn primary jungle. Timber companies dug out wet rice fields for them.

Yuyu, ethnic cleansing, mass expulsion, mass theft of property, military occupation, apartheid legislation etc is a "lifestyle"? "Uni-cultural"? Based on the dispossession and exclusion of its indigenous Palestinian population. Falling into a "territory-trap"? 67 was a preemptive war by Israel and recognised by every member state of the UN as such, including the US. Israel "could/should have left them long ago." Refreshing honesty for once. You're not totally iredeemable like Bazooka, thank god. "Extremist religious groups took advantage of Israel's weak government (sic) [I'm sure the Palestinians would disagree with you about that.] to hijack those territories"? Bozbaz won't like that! Still, you're in denial there. Israel's playpens for religious nutters couldn't possibly have happened without the unstinting backing of every Israeli govt since 67, especially that of Rabin, Bibi, Barak and Sharon. And anyway, why not just pull out the army and leave the settlers to their own devices? Would you have a problem with this? Incidentally, given your opposition to the "cursed occupation", did you ever lift a finger to oppose it? OK, don't listen to me on 48. Try reading Israeli historian, Benny Morris' The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited. Benevolent occupation? An oxymoron. As for the Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel (your Israeli Arabs) can I refer you to Susan Nathan's The Other Side of Israel. She was a Zionist until her blinkers fell off. Happy reading. PS How are you going with your documenting?