Let me test our right to think freely here on this page, after all we know the idea behind this forum is freedom of speach.
Within boundrys of course.
I growingly question why I should share my country with many of the Muslim faith.
I have concerns that minoritys within that group will never execpt my freedoms to be me.
I beleave only a very few Muslims speak out for my rights, and while I have deep contempt for Howard and Costello its my view they speak for Australia on this issue.
Dare I SAY IT? every one is welcome in Australia IF YOU RESPECT IT!

Hi all

Ev (post 12:02:08 AM 11/3/06)

Seems as though you haven't studied Buddhism, & whilst probably being a Secular Humanist, you haven't studied that either.

Although the majority of Buddhisms originated beyond the shores of Japan, have you ever understood Japanese history? Does WW II signify anything?

Humanists are such wonderful people also?! I think not! Read their manifestos & study modern history.
(11/3/06)

Leigh (post 10:14:17 AM 11/3/06)

Well said!
(11/3/06)

Martin ibn Warriq (post 10:48:41 AM 11/3/06)

You are a sane, rational, learned human being. Keep listening to your University lecturer.

The Sufis Movement gives a very false impression of what the remainder of Islam is all about. But I'm certain that you know that already.

This mystical form of Islam, named after the early ascetics who wore course wool garments, might be akin to the Jewish Kabbalists, & the unrelated religion, Parsism.

A study of early-20th Century Muslim, Sayyid Abu l-Ala MAWDUDI, is an interesting read. From memory he was a Chishti (order) Sufi - a 12th Century strain.
(11/3/06)

BOAZ_David (post 3:40:34 PM 11/3/06)

As usual: well analysed & stated.
(12/3/06)

MikeM (post 4:04:41 PM 11/3/06)

I don't think that B_D is trying to say that they are mutually exclusive. He is probably trying to state their 'origins' - origins which get subverted within a very short period of time.

The Cronulla Riot was originally a religio-cultural dispute - non-Muslims who objected to Muslim taunts & insults. It wasn't long before the Media & the perpetrators turned it into a racial/ethnic dispute.

Consider: the Muslims could just as easily have been Anglo-Saxon converts (some were). But a few lunny-bins nominated the Muslims as all & only "Lebanese". Equally, the Muslims saw their 'enemy' as only being Anglo-Saxons. Now we create "a race riot", which ignores that differing religous & cultural beliefs exist within separate ethnic groupings.

Covetousness is arguably the most disobeyed of the last 6 Commandments - closely followed by # 5 & 9. The Apostle Paul struggled with it. It is probably closely-related to modern-day self-survival (at times).
(12/3/06)

Cheers all

Hi all

bigmal (post 9:57:45 PM 11/3/06)

You've got it in one. Well said!

If/when Dar Al-Islam comes to Australia, we won't get a choice. Sharia will be the Islamic model.

Even Sufis are not tolerated by their more-violent 'brothers'.
(12/3/06)

BOAZ_David (post 10:22:46 PM 11/3/06)

I wish your detractors actually read your posts instead of angrily opposing you.
(12/3/06)

bigmal (post 11:26:47 AM 12/3/06)

Apart from Muslim-dominated countries, I can't see where Islamic law could ever be compatible.

Momentarily I thought that you were pro-Islam. But then I read further.

Muhammed often contradicted himself. His war-like & violent behaviour was his bench-mark - a template for his followers.

I haven't read that particular Hadith - unless I'm forgetful. Much of the contents of the Qur'an & the Ahadith are An-Nasekh wa Al-Mansoukh ("abrogating and abrogated texts") - even the "sahih" ("correct") & the "mutawata" ("similarly said by many") are contradicting.

Would you kindly quote your reference?

Thanks for the hyperlinks
(12/3/06)

natasha (post 5:49:16 PM 12/3/06)

Multiculturalism was never properly defined. The populace trusted the government to 'lead' them into a 'new', supposedly anti-discriminatory realm.

Because it wasn't adequately defined it's impact was not understood. Most pre-, post- & "Baby-boomers" thought that it meant enjoying some new culinary delights, parades & pretty clothing. Wrong! Multiculturalism means much more. All ethnicities, didn't ask enough questions at the beginning.

The pre-1978 migrants appreciated immigration & willingly integrated. They proudly called themselves 'new' Australians.

I'm clearly pro multi-ethnicity. However, under multiculturalism, I shouldn't be forced to accept worse moral & ethical codes, changes to laws to accommodate 'new' arrivals, & threatening religious practices. But enough on multiculturalism.

Look up www.amf.org.au Be prepared to read a lot of biased garbage.

Surprisingly many non-Arabs do convert to Islam. Infact, Arabs only represent a small percentage of the world's Muslim population.

It's not bizarre that Muslim migrants want to convert others. It's a proselytic religion.

I'd suggest that you read the Qur'an, too. A 'free' copy? http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Have a read of the posts by BOAZ_David, bigmal, Martin ibn Warriq, kalweb & others.
(13/3/06)

Cheers all

Ben,

Bob Birrell's research concerns Lebanese migrants. It doesn't concern Muslim migrants.

Lebanese migrants belong to a variety of denominations - Druze, Sunni, Shia, Maronite Catholic, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox and Armenian Orthodox.

The majority of Australia's Lebanese are not Muslim. They are Christian.

Further, you need to ask yourself what proportion of Australia's total Muslim population are of Lebanese background. Can you show me any studies which show that the majority of Australia's Muslims are Lebanese?

Your attempt to apply Birrell's research to all Muslim migrants makes no demographic sense. Please exercise caution and intellectual honesty when making use of other people's research.

And could meredith and all the other armchair nazis at least learn to spell my name correctly?

Muslims, in a purely defensive mode, sling off at Oz as a nation of near naked drunks who have treated the Aboriginals badly. This makes them feel so superior with their own 'modesty''sobriety'and everlasting'praying'.
We have them writing into forums how they contrast with Australians in their habits but mention the terrible acts that Muslims are committing world wide and they prefer to go deaf, dumb and unaware if it is unfortunate to be mentioned.
One does not even have to mention the mindless barbarities , one only has to see what a backward, medieval outlook they have to know that they will never advance one bit until they lose their very undeserved high and mighty opinion of their achievements because they really have nothing to be proud of at all.
We have an excellent country, created in such a short span by people who tried very hard and achieved very much. Our ancestors, of whom we are very proud whatever their origins, convict or settler. We owe them.

Ifran

How about some mutual repsect? I'll learn to spell your name... if you learn the concept of manners and boudries as understood in secular Modernity and curtail to Australias resounding NO to non secular islam and it's religious law.

Deal?