Mr Irfan

You had me sucked in until your last paragraph. I was thinking - what a great article.

So the Koran teaches about charity and giving things of value. That is great.

How dare you say that Australians are following Koranic teachings of charity, value and the like!

You are not an Aussie - even though you were born here. Your last paragraph is repulsive.

Narcissist said:
'The sharing of legal practice and ideas is not suprising as the cultures that Irfan refers to can all trace their legal origins back to the Code of Laws created by King Hammurabi of ancient Babylon.'

Thanks for your comment. This reminds me:

The believers of the Abrahamic religions (all based on the fear of being punished by God or His servants, either in this life or in Hell) - Judaism, Christianity and Islam, just seem to ignore the rest of the history of humans as if it never existed. History for them, begins when their 'Holy Men' pronounced their judgements, or when other people wrote 'scriptures' or scripts based around the lives of those men.

The Abrahamic relgions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are all based on the fear of punishment, the fear of being punished. This is closely related to a deeply held fear of death.

If you're going to bother being a religious follower at all, you are probably best off being a Buddhist. At least being loving and peaceful is at the core of Buddhism. Jesus was practically a 'Buddha'. (The term "Buddha" is derived from the verbal root "budh", meaning "to awaken" or "to be enlightened", and "to comprehend".

What a pity the Bible contains both the Old and New Testaments. The New testament is relatively peaceful, although the sword of punishment/being sent to Hell for not believing still hangs over it.

Lots of people note how brutal Christianity has been through the ages. Notice how many of the great Christian hymns are heavily laden with violent Old Testament references - These types of hymns and songs were heavily used in the past in Christian countries as motivation in times of war.

My advice for Christians - tear out the first half of your Bibles. Even better, become a Buddhist. Better still - learn how to think for yourselves.

My advice for Hebrews and Muslims - also learn how to think for yourselves.

If Irfan wants to write on Sharia law, that's his business. Some of us will be interested.

But, as for discussing it! Sharia law has nothing to do with Australian society. As with the old axiom: "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts", it is: "Beware of Muslims giving information".

Muslims will share only that which they wish to share. Their real purpose is to spread the word of the Prophet and convert infidels to Allah, and they are not going to tell you about that. The little titbits they deign to broadcast about themselves simply take your mind of the ball.

Don't worry about Sharia. Worry about the overall threat of Islam.

Re: Sufism

Email from my university philosophy/european studies lecturer (whom I hadn't spoken to in ages) Jan. 16 2006.

"On the question of Islam- I was horror struck when I read the Koran
and tripply so when I read much of the hadith. on any Christian viewing
Mohammed is a demonic force- examples such as his inistence upon stoning
adulterers, taking as concubines the victims of execution, his failure to
understand mercy, his reintroduction of the rigidity of the law (in fact
judaism was not that rigid), his fusion of the political and the heavenly, his
paltry view of heaven. If you do not know a geo-political journalist (the only
journalist I know who is steeped in theology) who goes under the name spengler
and writes for Asiatimes online go read him. Medieval christians were not
opposed to islam bvecause they were ignorant but they new what they stood for,
I think Europe will be Islamic or a tthe very least will be engulfed by civil
wars due to islam within the next thirty years (demographics alone suggest
this). having been a great fan of sufism (and i still am) I had imagined the
Koran to be in its spirit it is not. Khomeini and bin Laden are good muslims. i
have no doubt of that. But I could go on."

Irfan

Thank you for acknowledging the errant 'attack' by some sections of the media & portions of your own Muslim community upon the Federal Treasurer.

The principles which are the underlying foundation to international laws appear to be similar - truth, integrity, morals. ethics & justice. But that is often where the similarities cease. Truth, for instance, has become 'subjective' or relative. Western society talks about "white lies". Muslims consider it permissible to lie:
(i) to "mend a friendship";
(ii) during jihad - violent warfare, or for the sake of Allah;
(iii) to deceive a wife.

Having said that, I do not pretend that Westerners & people of other religious &/or ethnic backgrounds don't lie. They do. But their religious texts don't condone it. The Qur'an & some Ahadith do - including the "sahih" writings of Bukhari, Muslim & Ali.

Many ethnic & religio-cultural groups mistreat women. But there are few - from all those I've studied - which condone from their writings, the subjugation of women. Islam is one of those exceptions. "Women are deficient in intelligence, in religion & in gratitude" - according to Islamic writings. Whatsmore, they "have 10 'awrah" - Vol 22 Hadith 858.

Which specific "British Common Law" doctrines are taken from Islamic Sharia jurisdictions? Australian law is predominantly based upon British traditions. Arabic culture is, for the most part, quite dissimilar to all that Australia has been for its 200-years of history since Captain Cook.
(10/3/06)

coach (post 9:56:50 AM 10/3/06)

I share much of your frustration(s).

What befuddles me though is that there are so many 'nominal' Muslims who appear to try so hard to conform to their surroundings - my hairdresser is one such humanbeing.

My wife & I moved from Cairns to Lakemba in 1976. That suburb has changed monumentally since then. It is not the safe enclave that it once was. It does seem, that once Muslims "open the book" - their book - & take on the 'wisdom' of their local imam, all their worldly values disappear. ...

...(t.b.c.)

Hi all

(cont) Coach

That indicates there are two possible sources for the 'change':
(i) the Qur'an & the other associated literature, &/or;
(ii) the quality & philosophies of their mosque elders/teachers.

Christ said: "You will know them by their fruits." Sadly, the current worldwide violence, & the historical facts surrounding Mohammad's warlike existence don't give optimism that Muslims who follow Islam's prophet will be any more peaceful, long-term.
(10/3/06)

jimoctec (post 12:20:58 PM 10/3/06)

".. the shared traditions of legal institutions across cultures ..". There's more dissimilarity than there is similarity - African tribal law could not be compared to Communist Chinese, to Eastern European etc. The UN is trying to establish a "universal law" - heaven forbid.

Biased we all are .. to some degree.

The American Baptist minister exemplifies an anti-Christian hatred. I hope that he lost his posting - he was unfit to serve office. That doesn't lessen the sinful nature of the deceased gay individual - Islam & Christianity agree on that issue. But God will judge him - not fallen mankind.

Taking any religion seriously is the only way that we can identify different moral & ethical codes. Under a "one world government" someone has to sacrifice their integrity. I hope that future 'governments' never compromises the pure essence of Christianity.
(10/3/06)

Fellow_Human (post 1:00:15 PM 10/3/06)

The PM has a better understanding of Islam than you might think. He does have Muslim advisors, & there are those from within the Defence & Intelligence organisations who consult with him. Senior Federal Ministers have received deputations by Muslim representatives at regular intervals - especially since 1998 (I have document copies).

Christians & Muslims have a lot less in common than you intimate. DEEDAT's claims are blasphemous & heretical. The comment that Yeshua wasn't crucified aren't substantiated by historical records. To the contrary - hundreds of people who knew Him witnessed the event. Both friends & opponents verified it in writings hundreds of years before Mohammed made up his fictional story.
(10/3/06)

Cheers all