Kish, I'm an Australian--my nick is Celtic not middle eastern.

I understand the australian political process better than you give me credit. The election of the Senate is based on proportional voting not preferential-therefore if you vote for Greens or Democrats it counts solely as a vote for them not Labour. When in the senate, their power to modify policy is very real and in some cases pivotal to the outcome of legislation. The amount of Democrats/Greens in the Senate was severely reduced in the last election and the increase in the power of the liberals means they can pass what legislation they wish without negotiation with other parties provided they keep their own party members happy.

In the House of Representatives, the preferential system is used and means on second count many Democrat and Green votes go to the major parties-most often Labour. But public opinion does influence political decisions even when a party doesn't get in--the liberal concessions to the One Nation party's policies is a case in point.

I made it clear the australian majority either agreed with the war **or** just didn't think it important enough to register a protest against. You come back with "People care much less about a war on the other side of the planet then they do about whats happening in there own backyard." You completely agree with me--Australians just don't care as long as they have money in their pocket--others can be bombed to smithereens.

The current economic position isn't simply because of the Liberal Governments good handling of the economy. It has to do with Global economics--increased demand for our minerals and the availability of cheap investment capital from overseas among other things. But our current account deficit is shocking and I wouldn't feel too comfortable about the long term consequences of that.

You don't read the comments you answer thoroughly and make presumptions about the other person based on sheer fantasy not what they say.

Aziliz,

I dont dispute that you suggested in your last post that australian's are eitehr pro-war or dont care enough. My point is more so to emphasis that latter to be the case based on what I have experienced from talking to other australians. This does not for a second suggest that i am correct, it is my opininon based on my experiences, which i believe is the whole point of this forum.

Azilliz maybe a celtic name, but it sounds muslim. I am of mixed origin, half australian, half indian malaysian, so I have heritage from a muslim country, and Azilliz sounds muslim, get over it.

For my senate vote I always try to choose an independant over democrates / greens, as democrates and greens will always oppose liberal legislation proposales as much labour do (out of default). I agree that right now the current political climate with liberals in both the upper and lower house reigning supreme is not ideal.

However, it wasn't too long ago where it was next to impossible for liberals to pass though any legislation as democrates and greens, would just go against it by default. I believe this is equally counter productive and I would rather the power be given to a less bias independant.

As you have just suggested the house of reps vote is rather pointless espcailyl in my area where any real anti liberal vote will end up in labour.

I also accept that the economic boom we are having right now is not purely as a result of the liberal party and I did not state that in my post. In fact keating had as much to do with this as costello. Naturally the economy plays a huge role, so what? My point is very simple, I do not believe that labour are near as competant as liberal in managing the economy. That is my opinion based on the many hours of question time I have seen. I do not feel comfortable with them running the economy.

Coach,

Before I start, let me just state for the records, that I am NOT religious. In fact I am not remotely religious (and im not suggesting that you said otherwise). One of the reason why I am not relgious is because of all the research I have done on numerous religions. Islam being one of them. And just so you should know i have read alot of the english translated quaran. So much so that I even managed to convert to an islamic friend of mine who was a staunch muslim prior to hearing my arguments against the religion.

Now before you jump with joy, my disbelief of religious texts have abolsutely nothign to do with the moralistic teachings of most relgions (or should i say most of the morales outlined in a religion) but more so the lack of scientific credibility that religions have when trying to explain things that sceince has proven beyond doubt. Evolution is the obvious, but there are many more verses that try to do the impossible in both christinaity and islam.

My mother was born and raised in a muslim country that are just as staunch as any other (malayisa). Half my extended family live in this country. As you can imagine I have been there numerous times and been exposed to the mulisms in this country as well as muslims here.

Malaysia is such a peaceful country with such peaceful people. They all go to mecca and follow islam "blindly". They are not bad people in fact there quite hospitable peopel who are only to happy to accomodate you. I have read the english translated version of the quaran alot more than you give me credit for. I don't respect muhammaed, nor do i respect alot of the hadith teachings. The quaran itself is not some axis of evil as you try to suggest, and the majority of muslims are peacveful loving people. Every religion has its flaws, believe you me. Christianity is one religion that has been altered throuhgout time and if you belive otherwise your an idiot. Islam has not.

Poor pericles: You know neither the Bible nor the power of God, but you do not let that stop you eh? I mean if you are ignorant about a subject - and it's not wrong to be ignorant about a certain subject, yet if you are it's best not to advertise the fact. You judge others caustically so one for you - please stop talking/writing such arrant nonsense. You have written passable posts is the past - back to the blue pills I think. numbat

No need to be so rude about my name, kish, I was just explaining where it came from.

And I did not suggest that the House of Reps vote was a waste of time. Reread my post--you are mixing up your opinions with mine.

Your statement that you vote independent without stating their policies is unenlightening. My point was if someone's greatest desire was to prevent the deaths of tens of thousands and the physical injury and economic ruin of hundreds of thousands in the Bush war then they would vote for someone who opposed the war no matter what the other policies of the parties were. Anyone anti-war who preferred to go with a party or individual that they thought had the soundest economic ability is stating quite categorically that their material benefit is worth more to them than the lives of other human beings

Aziliz,

I was not rude about your name, merely stating that it sounds muslim to me and that you need to move on. You seem to argue points purely for the sake of arguing. Who cares that I thought your name was muslim, I apologised now move on.

Now lets try this again. Voting for the greens or democrates in my area is the same as voting for labour. Do you understand? It is not about public opinion, because at the end of the day my vote goes to labour not the democrates or the greens. So producing an Invalid vote is my way of protesting by NOT allowing either liberal or labour to get my vote. I dont see how this is less effective than voting labour by placing a symbolic greens / democrates vote that will only ever be counted as LABOUR at the end of the day.

I vote for independants in the upper house because I do not want the balance of power to go to EITHER liberal or labour / democrates / greens. Why? because labour / democrates / greens childishly oppose every liberal policy by default, whether it is a good policy or a flawed policy. This is counter productive. On the other hand, allowing liberal to control the senate as well as the lower house is far from ideal as they can do pretty much as they please. I would rather the balance of power end up with a few independants that tend to be less bias towards one party or the other. Dont get me wrong, when you watch question time every week you tend to loose faith in labour and the democrates and even the greens.

To suggest that people care more about there back pockets than the suffering of others because they voted liberal is very left wing and quite contraversial. I am sure voting liberal out would make a huge difference to bush's invasion. Im sure labour would have our troops back in a heart beat. All those heartless Aussies that just don't care about iraqies suffering.