PS I get the impression from certain professed Christians on this forum that they are just as much theocratic fundamentalists as the Islamists they criticise.

One of the most noticeable trends in the Western world since Osama took over the mantle of Marx as Mr Evil, is the surge in activity of fundamentalist christianity. As a secularist/pluralist/democrat, I feel increasingly like a raison* in an overcooking fruitcake.

*[linguistic pun alert: raison = Fr. "reason"]

Best article I've read on muslims and their plight in the modern world. I hope Bashir gets offers to go on lecture tours around the globe. We need more enlightened intelligent souls such as him bridging the gaps between muslims and the rest of the world.

As far as St_Alk is concerned, this poster sounds brainwashed and incomprehensible to a mainstream person. This is an example of why Bashir Goth has his work cut out for him.

Peter Costello also has his work cut out for him. For all his rhetoric, it seems to me that for him talk is louder than action, and talk is all you you need to buy votes. If he was serious about protecting Australian values he'd have Sheikh Kahlid Yasin who is preaching to anti-social behaviour (ie. you can’t have non muslim friends) to Australian muslims, banned from ever entering Australia again. I don’t know why the Australian muslim community even put up with him. He is a threat to harmonious integration of muslims in Australia and simply promotes their reputatation as a bunch of mad terrorists. Allowing Sheikh Khalid Yasin to preach here must surely have people like Bashir Both wanting to bang their heads against the wall at the futility of bringing Islam into the 21st century.

Under the present tough talking government, immigration has increased so dramatically, in numbers and in eccentricity, that there are more racial/religious tensions in this country than ever before.

Skeptor

Good post mate - the first one. See my previous post.

I call moderate Muslims - "mushy", as in soft and pink marshmellows.

Keysar Trad is so mushy. He speaks more bulldust than any politician I have ever heard. Even Bob Browm sounds better - and that's a first for me.

Cheers
Kay

Yesterday, I provided some information about the United Arab Emirates on its religious tolerance. The UAE is regarded as having "generally free practice of religion" by the US State Dept in its 2005 International Religious Freedom Report.

Bigmal wrote an interesting follow up post. He said that in choosing the UAE, I was being selective. Other countries, including muslim countries did have religious restrictions. He said that I was "hoisted on your petard"; like an "own goal". Well, not really.

He is only correct in that I was selective. I chose the UAE because it’s a multi-ethnic muslim country under sharia law, which according to the US State Dept, generally has freedom of religion. It was specifically mentioned in the Executive Summary of the Report.

Previously bigmal had said: "All that remains now is to try and work out just how the Muslim fraternity is going to organise even PART OF ITSELF, and work to get its own house in order. I dont see much hope of that happening in the next 100 years." (24feb06 11:24am, my caps) I suggest to bigmal that the UAE is "PART" of the Muslim fraternity. If we are going to make such a time estimate we need to look at the leading edge, not the trailing edge.

BTW, I am not in any way supporting Sharia law or suggesting that the UAE has the same level of religious tolerance as Australia. Worldwide, we are on the leading edge and we’ll be staying there, using the laws of the parliament under our constitution and Australian values of fair-go.

Overall I am more glad that bigmal appreciated and reacted positively to this article as I did.

I am not worried about point scoring. We should inform ourselves as to the level of religious tolerance in the countries of the world using reliable material. The International Religious Freedom Report 2005 shows the good and the bad, (except it does not examine the US itself, but I don’t think there’d be much dispute in saying the US has freedom of religion.)

That web address again: http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/

Finally the voice I been waiting to hear. It has been a mystery to me, where have these men Of Islam been with this voice of reason and knowledge? There have been rumors that this voice was there. This is however the first evidence I've seen of it. Now if he can only inspire others to take up the banner, Not just Muslim, but Christian as well. This is a voice that deserves respect. Something I haven't been able to say about to many people of religion.

Once again, thank you for the Forum.

DAvid Latimer
understanding the term "Religious Freedom" under Islam, is a lot like understanding their 'code' words "Innocent People".

You will often here the condemnation of killing "innocent people", but this does not neccesarily mean they regard those killed in bombings etc as 'innocent' specially if they are Jews -all the term does is give some sanitizing 'spin' to the Muslim position.

Just so with religious 'freedom'. You may be free to 'practice' in the sense of goto Church, Believe, worship etc, but you are NOT free to SHARE your faith, build new Churches (in some places) etc etc.. That my friend is 'bullock' freedom.. (a bull with no balls) You are especially not free to share your faith with or evangelize Muslims.

MALAYSIA WOMENS MOVEMENT
This morning a fascinating doco was on Fox. The presenter was a muslim.
They covered "Islam in Malaysia" and contrasted it with Indonesia.

A womens movement has arisen which is in response to women complaining when:

-their husbands take a 2nd wife.
-When they are 'beaten' by their husbands
-When they are divorced at whim by their husbands
-When they are treated unfairly (in their minds) by the Sharia courts(run by men)

Their complaints ALSO include "But when we complain they just tell us it is all authorized under Islam and the Quran"

Which of course is quite accurate. One of the 'Sisters in Islam' wants to be the first female Sharia judge ! Which is impossible under Quranic Islam

My observation is that what they REALLY long for is the freedom of a Christian society :) (as in truly Christian) Many of the values of Malaysian life reflect Christian values more than Islamic and their is a conflict.

The current Prime Minister Badawi is an absolute gem of a man. His outlook seems more Christian than Muslim :)

F.H. I've been reading your posts. Cheers.

Blessings all.