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The Forum > Article Comments > Muslim tolerance put to the test > Comments

Muslim tolerance put to the test : Comments

By Bashir Goth, published 24/2/2006

Islam is insulted everyday by Muslims themselves.

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David

'Henry Lawson's prose'

Mate in my good natured way I have to say that is the greatest underestimation and understatement concerning Australia's greatest poet.

His prose was good but his poetry was better. It rang with emotion and truth.

His 'Black Bonnets' a tribute to his mother... well what could be more Australian.

Some of his messages are still apt today.

Rain in the Mountains

The valley's full of misty cloud,
It's tinted beauty drowning,
The Eucalypts roar aloud,
The mountain fronts are frowning.

The mist is hanging like a pall
From many granite ledges,
And many a little waterfall
Starts o'er the valley's edges.

The sky is of a leaden grey,
Save where the north is surly,
The driven daylight speeds away
As night comes o'er us early.

But, love, the rain will pass full soon
Far sooner than my sorrow,
And in a golden afternoon
The sun may set to-morrow.
Posted by keith, Saturday, 25 February 2006 1:52:01 PM
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-philo-

I am australian, born, family has been here since the 1700's. I am the only person in my family that is muslim, rest are catholics, christians and jewish.
I live here in australia and i follow the rules, but that does not mean i agree with it. it is said that you may not like what is written, or you may not like the laws by man but you go along with it if there is not choice, but in your heart you don't agree.
fear comes from satan (bismillah), because if you trust GOD, you will never be scared, except from him. (meaning what you do now will count on judgement day).

coach
I have a qeustion for you, You say the Jesus is GODs (swt) son. Why does GOD need a son and he doesn't need a wife?

You said Jesus died for our sins, Then do you think that it would be fair for some one that works hard for what they believe in, work hard in been good and doing good, all there life. Then having some one that killed, raped, and just had fun all there life and get enter paradise? I don't think this is fair at all.
Jesus (peace be upon him) did not die, he is in heaven now, alive he is going to come back, he will break the cross and kill all the pigs and and non believers.

Do you honestly think that all the laws that were given to us mean nothing? the holy book is to guide us through our lives, because this life is short and it is a test of faith. But the here after is forever. Muslim believe that everything that happens to us is from ALLAH (swt), so everything bad or good that happens we say thanks GOD. I respect what you are saying in fact what anyone says, but in my heart i do not agree.
Posted by st_alk, Saturday, 25 February 2006 2:42:17 PM
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st_alk,

1. Why does GOD need a son and he doesn't need a wife?

The answer to that is in the Qur’an (Mariam) – Jesus was miraculously born by the virgin Mary.

2. God is a Just Judge and Ruler of all. He makes the rules and judges us according to His rules. Jesus is The Fulfilment of The Law of Moses (the Tawrat, The Prophets, and The Zabur). The Injil is the NEW Testament – God’s New Rule: The Word is Jesus.

You say the Qur’an confirms the Bible. DOES IT?

If it really did - then why don’t you read the bible for yourself instead of relying on the Qur’an's interpretation of the Injil? Compare the two and then tell me what you think.

3. What proof do you have that Allah gave your prophet Mohammad any revelation?

You have the word of one man with very questionable curriculum vitae and you base your entire life and eternal life on him? That is insane.

4. God created man free to believe, to sin, and to do good. But you say that “everything that happens to us is from Allah…” he causes you to sin? – How could a pure god come near sin?

When Jesus died on the cross He said:” Father, why have you abandoned me?” That is proof that God cannot exist where there is sin. (Jesus carried all mankind’s sin upon himself – so god had to turn his face.

So one of our Beliefs is wrong. You say that you don’t agree with the Christian Bible yet Allah your god in your Qur’an tells you to respect the scriptures that where revealed to the Jews and the Christians before Mohammad’s.

So which is it? What YOU agree to believe or what your god ALLAH tells you to believe and respect?

It doesn’t appear to me that you respect the bible much if you deny what it reveals.
Posted by coach, Saturday, 25 February 2006 3:40:18 PM
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ST ALK

help us to understand where you are coming from please.

You speak with great faith in Islam and in Mohammed, could you describe how you became a Muslim ? We usually call that our 'testimony'.

What information did you examine, and were you 'guided' by some Imam or did you look for yourself ?

Did you ask yourself this question "Would a man claiming to be the final prophet of God be lesser or greater than Christ"?

You are ok with him leaping on a sleeping woman and stabbing her to death ? Did you know this before you make your committment, or after, was it too late by then ? Do you even know this now ?

Did you not feel just a little 'uncomfortable' at the idea of him taking a 9 yr old girl to bed ? have you seen just how small a 9 yr old is ?

Or..did you get carried away with the "In the name of Allah the benificent" etc etc.. which might be described as 'verbal gilt edging'
which could of course be invented by any 'spiritual' person, such as Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormons

A couple of points on your view about 'The Laws' which you seem to think we regard as unimportant. The problem is this.

-God, is perfect,in all holiness.
-God and sin, cannot dwell together.
-We are sinful, even if we 'miss' by a mm or a mile, just 'once'.
-If you sin 'once' do you remain Holy ?

Once you have driven off a cliff...there is absolutely no turning back, its a one way trip to oblivion. You can plead, be sorry, negotiate, beg, stamp your feet , scream, abuse... etc etc..but 'nothing' will drive that car ur in back to the top. Down...down...downnnn u go... unless:

What we need is a force greater than gravity, who cares enough about us, to provide a 'way' to safety.

Not a very good illustration, Jesus told so many better ones...
So, the Law simply demonstrates our sin, it does not save us from it.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 25 February 2006 7:28:54 PM
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Bashir, one person of interest in Islamic philosophy is held to be Imam al-Ghazali born in 1058. He argued that reason could not transcend the finite and was limited to the observation of the relative. Whilst several Muslim philosophers had the opinion that the universe was finite in space but infinite in time he argued that infinite time was related to infinite space. I've always found this belief quite remarkable because it assumes an infinite universe rather than one created or one originating from some big bang fireworks. If the universe is infinite and has always existed then what role is there for a god if by chance there could be one of these entities?

When people discuss any issue they are likely to do so through different ..... even mutually exclusive ..... a priori sets of assumptions or beliefs about the nature of reality and the human place in it. For all perceptual, emotional, and behavioral purposes, people in fact can live in quite different realities. With such species dissociation, it is not unusual for different groups to be psychologically unable to draw compatible conclusions from the same fact. How do people then cope with this situation? Democratically perhaps?

So whilst one can always be curious as to why we don't agree on certain issues with others there is always for myself a serious problem when it comes to anyone infected with a teddy (god) mind virus. I just know that with these people the mechanisms essential to human functioning have been poisoned and are of no use through such obvious insecurity.

Of course we can ask many questions but in the process only a democratic humanity can win the day. However it is a burdensome fact that none of these teddies (i.e. invented gods) are about democracy. "Gods" don't do democracy.
Posted by Keiran, Saturday, 25 February 2006 9:44:13 PM
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An excellent and courageous article, in contrast with the mix of numb silence, insincere tut-tutting and ranting lunacy that we hear from the leaders of the Muslim nations. The resounding absence of an intelligent and humane response makes even George Bush look good.
Posted by Skeptor, Saturday, 25 February 2006 10:28:51 PM
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