There are Christian posters to this website who are erudite and enthusiastic about debate. I just wish they were on this thread. Strange it is only the most reactionary types who continue to lambast those of a different faith or no faith at all.

Coincidence is it not, that the topic is about an excessive reaction by some members of a religion (Islam) to some dumb cartoons. I say coincidence because the extreme reaction of some members of a religion (Christianity) is just as excessive.

Extreme Christians versus extreme Muslims - pots & kettles.

Scout,

I don't normally address to you. Knowing the type of person you are....it'd just be a waste of time.

But in your posts:-

"...the most reactionary types..." ??
Most of those come here because they have something to say. Those who don't may have gone to Sunday picnic. Some here have strong views. This is a debate forum. What do you know?

"...coincidence...extreme reaction...is just as excessive."
You think people who write in to oppose stupid extreme reaction of the violent kind are just being extreme in their opposition? Give me a break. Are you a Muslim (or sympathiser) who's too chicken to admit it?

"Extreme Christians versus extreme Muslims"
No, it's non-Muslims against extreme Muslims. Also count in Atheists, Buddhists and ANYONE who values freedom and democracy especially anyone who recognises the danger of Islam. You certain belong to the other side or is too silly to know which side of the fence is which.

I think you'd better show some ability to think before someone lambasts what's left of your little brain. Surely there ain't going to be no sympathy from me.

GZ Tan, thanks for the insights in the earlier post regarding your position. If you are not really a christain fundy but just happen to share their platform on hatred towards Islam then I apologise for lumping you in with them on the "fundy" thing. Some of your posts have suggested that a significant part of your reasons for your anti-muslim stance come from your spiritual worldview.

In my own case (and I think Scouts) we have a strong adversion to any extremist groups seeking to impose their faith or rules as to how we should live on those who don't share that faith.

I agree that extremist muslims are a threat to freedom and democracy but right now I believe that the rise of extremist christainity is a far bigger threat to freedom and democracy in Australia. Basically a numbers, organisation and level of influence thing.

You appear to be well aware that Christains come in a variety of flavours and approaches to their faith, I don't see why you can't accept that possibility for muslims as well. Dispite my current strong distaste for the christain church and gospel I know some christains who are in my view really good people. Their God allows humans free choice in how they live their lives so they don't see any reason to impose where their God chooses not to. They are passionate about their faith but don't see the need to try and force others to live by christian standards.

My impression of FH and Irfan is that they are something like the muslim equivalent of those type of christians. Nothing you have posted so far has given me any reason to think otherwise.

I believe that continual attacks on moderates of any persuasion is likely to increase the likelyhood of them becoming more extremist. I want FH, Irfan and others engaged in dialog with those who don't share their faith. I want them to know they are free to practice their faith as long as they leave the rest of us free to live by our own beliefs.

R0bert

what about George Bernard Shaw, Lamar Tine and many other great scholars, writers and intellectuals of the West.
(Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.

* "If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."
* I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion, which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence,
which can make itself appeal to every age.
* I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity." "I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness:
* I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.”
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth.
* He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numerous social and political reforms
* He established a powerful and dynamic society to practice and represent his teachings and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and behavior for all times to come

Robert
Thankyou for the clarification, but the comment gets stranger: a humanist being more christian than a christian is one thing, but a muslim!

As for GZ Tan's comments, it does not seem reasonable to judge the many by the actions of a few. Silence does not always mean assent in States where one can be persecuted for a subtle difference of theology or political belief. It often means people put their heads down and get on with life trying not to be noticed, making excuses for not being at rallies etc. I know very few muslims myself, but all of the ones I do know are appalled at the reaction to the cartoons and disappointed at the lack of repect in publishing the cartoons.

It is one thing to blow yourself up in the path of enemy tanks (according to some, the origin of suicide bombing), it is another to do it in trains, restaurants, and other public places of countries with whom one is not at war. However, the suicide bombers remain the few, not the many. Irfan, Tariq Ramadan and others speak more cogently and coherently to me of Islam than suicide bombers: for me they bring more respect to The Prophet than those who stain his name with innocent blood.

Odsoc

That reminds me of an interview with Germans after the war about whether they should have known what kind of person Hitler was.

One of them said that her circle of friends and family used to say "if only Hitler knew what the SA were doing to the Jews, and to other minorities he would stop it"

People didn't want to know, they didn't really, they wanted to believe Hitler was their saviour. It was too costly too much work to find out.

The simple solution to our troubles is to seperate Islam from current terrorism. History isn't kind to this approach. Nor is theological scrutiny of Islam.

The simple solution exclaims "A peaceful religion is being hijacked!" But that comes from the mouths mostly of those who know very little about religion or about Islam.

The easiest thing to say in our society is - we must prevent Islamophobia and support moderate Muslims. But the real Islamophobia is the fear of finding out what Islam really means, to not dare even to look for fear of what one might find. Moderate Muslims too often are like this

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/krauthammer021006.php3

when more of them should be like this

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Author/Sina.htm

My dhimmitude will be much easier than atheists and other non-believers'. Malik shows us how many Muslims really do feel, Islam is better than what the Europeans have now "Look even Wells and Shaw say so"! Malik has uncovered what moderate Muslims really believe.

There's no room for the secular in Islam, everything right down to how one should go to the toilet has to have an Islamic form.Non-religious people do not know what we're dealing with.

Stock standard PC phrases will not propel us into reality no matter how hard we wish.

We are reliant on Muslims to take a very hard look at Islam and help their fellow Australians to defend themselves against its aggressive political intentions.

The secular atheocracies developed in Europe will be the first to go, maybe its not such a bad thing *shrug* they're probably worse than Mohammedenism.