Hey Dobbadan,

When June rolls around and the final apocalyptic war between Islam and the West hasn't happened, i will expect to see you on OLO apologising profusely for being so gullible.

And in the incredibly unlikely event that it does, I promise to do the same.

Dobbadan - please put the Playstation away. I am glad that your friend is an 'ex'- US airforce officer. I hope that there are not too many like him still serving.

I think the time for hoping that if we ignore the religious bullies in the world then they will just fight among themselves and leave the rest of us alone is probably finished. In the past I have paid little attention to their ridiculous claims. However it seems that we will all need to work together if there is any hope of sorting out this mess we are in. I am not sure whether showing our strength of free speech and democracy by publishing cartoons (trying to keep to the point here) is going to be more effective than showing our respect and courtesy to our fellow human beings by not publishing them. Respect is probably the better option but it needs to be reciprocated.

Martin, perhaps if you understood the difference between recognising and admitting to the prejudices we each have vs thinking our own prejudices are not prejudices but rather divine insight you might understand what Scout is saying a bit better.

As someone who has both agreed with and disagreed with Scout on a variety of issues over a sustained period of time I have found her quite remarkable in her ability to recognise the role her own prejudices/biases play in her thinking and to attempt to gain understanding beyond those prejudices/biases. She has a courage and integrity in her attempts to understand other viewpoints that you could possibly learn a lot from if you wish to be taken seriously by those who don't already agree with you.

R0bert

Re Dobbadan's post.. yes, it does sound like a bit too much 'playstation'... which is exactly what those around 'Ol Noah' must have been saying as he built a huge 'Ark' on dry land.. "C'monnnn Noah dude.. a bit too much grape juice there eh .... hmm"

Nevertheless, whether Dobba is correct or not, it is a biblical principle of absolute certainty that God does use 'evil' nations to judge His own people.

"Fear Oh Sydney, Tremble oh Melbourne....your glorification of evil has reached my eyes..and shall I hold back ? "......prophetic, or peurile ?

Habakkuk 1

5 "Look at the nations and watch—
and be utterly amazed.
For I am going to do something in your days
that you would not believe,
even if you were told.
6 I am raising up the Babylonians, [a]
that ruthless and impetuous people,
who sweep across the whole earth
to seize dwelling places not their own.

This shocked the prophet.. and he said:

13 Your eyes are too pure to look on evil;
you cannot tolerate wrong.
Why then do you tolerate the treacherous?
Why are you silent while the wicked
swallow up those more righteous than themselves?

The LORD's Answer

2 Then the LORD replied:
"Write down the revelation
and make it plain on tablets
so that a herald [b] may run with it.
3 For the revelation awaits an appointed time;
it speaks of the end
and will not prove false.
Though it linger, wait for it;
it [c] will certainly come and will not delay.

Food for thought.

Irfanwrote: "I am not aware of any biographical record of the Prophet [sic] taking
any revenge for attacks on his person." Relevance?? Given this:

The only person who attempted to write down all of the Qur'anic revelations
while Muhammad was still alive was killed by order of Muhammad. According to the
Hadith, Abdallah bin Sa'd became concerned that some of the phraseology didn't
sound godly, so he suggested enhancements. When Muhammad accepted his edits,
Abdallah rejected Islam. He recognized that the Qur'an couldn't be from god if
he, a scribe, could copyedit it. TabariV888:178"When the Messenger entered Mecca
he ordered that the following men should be killed... first among them was
Abdallah bin Sa'd." Abdallah bin Sa'd knew too much.

Muhammad ordered his followers to assassinate anyone who criticized him. The
first was a poet named Ashraf. This Hadith is from Bukhari's Collection, Volume
4Book 52Number 270:Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, 'Who is ready to
kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama
got up saying, 'Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed'Yes.'

TabariVII97"The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill
any Jew who falls under your power.'"

Ishaq308 "Halfway to Medina, Ocba was called out to be executed." Ocba asked
Muhammad why he was being treated more harshly than the other captives. "The
Prophet said, 'Because of your enmity to Allah and to his Prophet.' 'And my
little girl,' cried Ocba in bitterness, 'who will take care of her?' 'Hell
Fire,' Muhammad responded. At that moment he was decapitated.

Poet Asma bint Marwan spoke critically of Muhammad, Ishaq676 "'You obey a
stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no
honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of
this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes.
That night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by
her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe
and then plunged his sword into the poet

R0bert

I think that the previous two posts have been an attempt to 'bury’ your very kind words as they do not relate to the discussion and are ridiculously lengthy.

Therefore, I repeat your post here:

<<Martin, perhaps if you understood the difference between
recognising and admitting to the prejudices we each have vs
thinking our own prejudices are not prejudices but rather divine
insight you might understand what Scout is saying a bit better.

As someone who has both agreed with and disagreed with Scout
on a variety of issues over a sustained period of time I have
found her quite remarkable in her ability to recognise the
role her own prejudices/biases play in her thinking and
to attempt to gain understanding beyond those prejudices/biases.

She has a courage and integrity in her attempts to understand
other viewpoints that you could possibly learn a lot from
if you wish to be taken seriously by those who don't already agree with you.

R0bert

Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 9 February 2006 12:47:30 PM>>

I must admit that I reread the post at least four times. I don’t feel I deserve such high praise, however, they were very welcome and cheered me immensely.

R0bert, your humane values are consistent throughout OLO and you are never scathing of others – always polite. I believe in setting an example and this you do in exemplary fashion.

It is very easy allow oneself to be goaded by the malicious intent of those who claim to be Christian and I confess to having given in to their vitriol on another thread.

Consider yourself hugged.

Much warmth and love

Dianne