Coach, I would reply to you in a reasonable, constructive manner, if I could find any semblance of fact or reality within what you say. Sadly you appear to lack any understanding of the subject you are deluded by. I would advise you to either study theological history, or shut up. It is apparent that you have no understanding of anything to do with the subjects you post on.

I really appreciate it when people point out where I am wrong regarding the history and veracity of religion. Sadly it is rare for them to be able to do this, as religion is what it is. Totally false and without substance, historically or in the present. With the wealth of knowledge that you have, surely you could point out to me, the great and wonderful things religion has brought to this planet. The loving benefits that religion has showered upon us and the care and diligence that religion has shown to the life forms of that exist here.

I am sure that you can show us how well true believers have heaped kindness and love upon the animals and other living beings here that were lovingly created by your god. How they reliigious turned the other cheek and were humble and loving in their dealings with the indigenous peoples of the world that they have encountered, or should I say destroyed. Just point me in the right direction to see the evidence of how well god fearing people have cared for your gods carefully planned and implemented creation.

But then again I may not be able to answer, as sometimes when I read what you say, I can't stop laughing at how sad your life must be in the depths of your god fearing deluded existence. I would be fearful of your god if it existed, considering the weight of evidence against it.

The alchemist

"I really appreciate it when people point out where I am wrong regarding the history and veracity of religion. Sadly it is rare for them to be able to do this, as religion is what it is. Totally false and without substance, historically or in the present."

This would have to be one of the best statements I have read on religion for quite some time.

You have to admit religion is pretty amazing. It is such an elastic concept. It can mean all things to all people and as such is totally meaningless and impossible to argue against.

Religion can be used to justify every cruelty, unfairness and exploitation there is and we see this happening daily at all levels - from heads of government to posters here. How can you rationally debate blind faith and the "Word of God"?

The alchemist,

My last message to you was just a courtesy post – no malice intended – but it appears you are all strung up and eager to attack.

You and your supporters are badly mistaking religion with relation.

I personally do not subscribe to religion and agree that it often is the source of most evil.

I enjoy a personal and intimate relation with God The Father through His Son Jesus; made possible by The Holy Spirit that is in me.

Contrary to what you CAN imagine; it takes humility to begin understanding what is beyond the human mind.

You have always found recourse to personal intimidation, from historicity to histrionics, to evade the simple questions that I posed and repeatedly invited your response but to no avail.

I won't bother you again. Your dogmatic stubbornness and hermetically closed mind is pathologically disheartening.

You are entitled to your opinions – may they be wrong, imagined or otherwise.

Your refusal to engage God in your life is the source of all your anxieties and fears.

Just remember: God is God and you are not; you are a mere human in dire straits for redemption that only HE can provide.

Ah! Boaz my friend - I merely use the Ham sandwich issue to point to some of the more tangential issues that seem to focus some minds when there are more important matters afoot.

And while I concede it is for some a matter of principle it struck me as a matter of bad judgement by the censor of cuisne at the time rather than a pointer to the type of insidious trend that some infer.

And as for Christians I think I have confessed to being one - and if I seem intolerant and insensitive I will need ot examine my conscious on that accusation.

I trust you had and yours had a good Christmas.

Rgds Kym

Coach, “I personally do not subscribe to religion and agree that it often is the source of most evil.”

What a perfect answer from someone that can only quote passages from the bible out of context and with little association to the facts.

Coach, blind faith is just that blind, as you show. As to answering you questions, Its hard to answer such rambling stupidity. The more you say the more you show that your understanding of the subject is zero.

I usually respect a persons views on their beleifs, even if I have a go at them, it is not personal. With apologies, I will not discuss scripture, as what is classed as that, is just a manipulated load of rubbish.

If you are to incompetent to make an effort to study the facts, then you place yourself within the realm of the enslaved blind, dumb, sad fools that follow illusional fantasies, that are destroying our planet.

Coach, your belief is false and history supports that fact. Like islam, none of you are prepared to support your beliefs with fact. All you can do is repeat like little rabbits, untrue and manipulated words. Start at the beginning and learn history. Ask any zealot to explain the difference between what religion says and the historical facts. They can't, they just disappear, just like your christmas, totally false.

But then again, I support you, as the need for cannon fodder is increasing within the religious world. Luckily wee non believing sane ones, have an intelligence that allows us to see reality. We see the danger and get out of the way to give slaves the chance to die for their god.

If your god is true, then your heaven will be filled with all the despots of history. As your god forgives all his followers, no matter what they do. Me I shall rejoice and go to hell with all the nice unbelieving, non violent people of the world. I'm sure they'll have Tassie wine there. As the wine in heaven is heavily diluted with fallacy and undrinkable.

Dear all

Thank goodness Christmas is over.

Hopefully the drinking binge has stopped, and the record roadkill in Queensland will not be repeated again.

The retailers have had their prayers answered - the last few days of credit card exercise had made up for a sluggish season until then. Hopefully the personal counsellors will not see a huge rise in their activites this autumn, trying to help those hopelessly in debt.

Pity that those nice warm feelings in this thread before Christmas did not produce a lasting effect.

Irfan is good at telling nice stories about himself. Do hope he will venture into the real world sometimes, without being selectively pollyanna-ish. (Not every ethnic immigrant gets a toffy private school education, and then has the wherewithal to live on the fat of the land and the oomph to propel oneself onto the priviledged.) But of course if he follows the craft of Alan Jones he would never do that. Jones and his likes seem to be our icons. Even David Flint put his admiration in writing whilst ivestigating Jones' misdeameander when Flint was in Howard's sinecure- Chair of ABA.

I often wonder what this OLO really achieves. I guess if it is like footy which is sometimes said to be an alternative to sending young men to war then it does serve some purpose.

cheers

Perhaps we can learn, for the new year, to be more focused (on the suject matter), more restrained (in point scoring), and above all more reflective of the 'reality' inhabited by the "other".

chek