HAM SANDWICHES.. just a little follow up there.. which I neglected to mention previously.. I'd be quite happy for the Mayor to have arranged for a table or 2 of Halal food in addition to the regular food. How hard is that ? A simple and obvious non discriminatory non exculsionary solution to a pretty simple problem.
What amazed me is that John Fein on 774 ABC at the height of the problem could not find such an idea in his own (usually) fertile grey matter.

In fact I would say that IS the essense of the Christmas spirit, to include as far as possible, etc.. reaching out in love.

Today I was going past a Pharmacy in Boronia, and they have a very large 'Nativity' scene and a Santa in the Window. They also have a kind of scroll which describes the basic birth of Christ story. Very nice.

ROBERT to answer your question on how I might react to a sex shop, it is with disgust and annoyance. We have a large supermarket one on Canterbury road. My answer is from the pre-amble to the constitution of Australia "Humbly relying on the blessing of Almighty God" i.e. the God known from our Judao Christian heritage. So, I don't see any conflict in a mayor saying 'NO sex shops in OUR turf' :) I don't see it as 'imposing' either. I see it as loyalty to the spirit of our national constitution.

If our preamble said 'In honor of Baal and Ashteroth' I would not have much of a leg up, but it doesnt. There is around 69% of Australians in 2001 who declared their 'Christianity' in various forms. I prefer not to introduce 'high places, baals and cult prostitutes' as Israel did each time it abandoned Yarweh.

I would rather see a national revival and then we would not be arguing about the issue.

Did you have some period of invovlement with a Charistmatic church Rob ? I'd guess u did at some stage. Possibly were let down by someone ?

Irfan, Nice post, kind words. Like holding a cross up to a vampire though for the usual crowd. Lives peopled with demons. All these negative people creating mischief rather than harmony - and at Christmas and often in Christ's name to boot.

Their constant haranging; their use of wounding words and wind up rather than just posit new ideas or opinions; their misleading assertions about others' posts suggests to me a hatred and obsession that goes beyond normal discourse and engagement.

One more thing. Talking to my aunty today. It's been forty years since her boy Jonny and two other lads died in a car accident. Aunty just said, with a tremor in her voice that would break most fella's hearts: "It's been forty years but ..... it still hurts like it was yesterday. Christmas has never been the same."
So please take care on the roads.

Ifran,
You, as ever, are thoughtful, tolerant and open-minded – unlike a number of humans we have come to know. I hope that it is your kind of (non-denominational) faith, tolerance and understanding that succeeds in this world. Thankyou for your efforts.

I would also like to thank those in this forum for helping me clarifying my spiritual position in the last 6 months. Without the pros and cons from all sides, I would not have come to the simple conclusion that dogmatic religion is divisive and intolerant.

As a result, I no longer believe (or require) the divinity of Jesus (or any other god/prophet/deity) to feel secure in the knowledge that the greater universal power – whatever it may be – knows me and holds me in regard, based on my character rather than my earth-bound beliefs.

That some grip so tightly to their beliefs and cry so loudly reveals, to me at least, the insecurity of them. Object as you will, it does not matter to me. Spirituality is and should be personal – not some homogenous, rigid, group-fest…

I will continue to honour those who enact the true message of their faiths and respect their beliefs – and dismiss those who speak in one tongue and act in another.

May whatever god you worship show you the way to true peace, tolerance and humanity… have a pleasant holiday season… why not try keeping the spirit alive for 364 days…?

Hi Irfan Yusuf,

It was pleasant reading your nice post. However, just one thing, the Jesus in Islam is not the same Jesus in the Bible. According to Islam, Jesus is coming back to kill the pigs (the Jews) and break the Cross (the Christians) - just one of many discrepancies.

BD, I'm guessing that the mayor thinks he is honoring his version of "Almighty God", I'm assuming you know enough to recognise that Christains, Jews and Muslims all do worship the same God even if their understanding of his supposed nature may vary.

We definately have different views on the role one persons beliefs should play in anothers choices. We've been down that track before you and I.

I'm probably heading off topic with this answer to your question but here goes. I have had involvement in a variety of denominations, some specific individal letdowns but more a belief that there is no evidence that the christain god has an active role in the body which claims him as head. Penticostals just make the lie more clear than others. I found that christains were no more ethical, no more honest, no more caring than others who live by a value system which should encourage those things. I found I was really sick of the cop outs of "Christains aren't perfect just forgiven" and all the rest of the excuses. People are people, some are good, some are not and the best I can be is when I take responsibility for my own life and my own choices. Believe me it is a good life even with it's ups and downs (I'm guessing that you are too thoroughly indoctrinated to ever consider that proposition seriously though).

Have a good Christmas and thanks for what appear to be some balanced posts today (even if I disagree with some of the content).

R0bert

Irf

Thank you for your article. What a nice Christmas gift!

TO ALL POSTERS:

* Peace
* Hope
* Love
* Forgiveness

That's what I think Christmas is about.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL
Thank you
Kay