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The Forum > Article Comments > Family, friends and a sense of real unity > Comments

Family, friends and a sense of real unity : Comments

By Irfan Yusuf, published 23/12/2005

Irfan Yusuf argues Christmas reminds us the things that unite us are greater and more important than those which divide.

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Those who object to Christians defending the Biblical Jesus against the Qur'anic account should take note that the Qur'an directly challenges Christians to reject what they hold to be true about Jesus. Therefore, Christians must respond. The Qur'an demands a response from all who claim to believe in the Bible. It is not a matter of unity between Christians and Muslims, it is about truth. Will you acquiesce to a lie? That is what people are in the habit of doing these days for the sake of not wanting to offend.
The references to Jesus' birth in the Qur'an originate from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (not the Gospel of Thomas which is a non-canonical compendium of Jesus' sayings). This is what the Wikipedia has to say about its authorship. "The Infancy Gospel of Thomas is, like many such texts, a pseudepigraphical work, for it claims within itself to have been written by 'Thomas the Israelite' (in a medieval Latin version). An historical Thomas (or Judas Thomas, Didymos Judas Thomas, etc.) is very unlikely to have had anything to do with the text: whoever its initial author was, he seems not to have known anything of Jewish life except for the Passover observance, and certainly had a completed Gospel of Luke to refer to."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Infancy_Gospel_of_Thomas

"Jesus spake when he was in the cradle, and said to his mother: 'Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, the Word, which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel, and My Father hath sent me for the salvation of the world'"
http://www.octc.kctcs.edu/crunyon/CE/Koran-Rushdie/Koran/infancy_gospel.htm

Matthew's gospel reads, "Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, 'Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.'" - Matt. 1:19-21
Posted by Crusader, Friday, 30 December 2005 10:13:42 PM
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Boaz,

Thanks for your comment. I guess if I apply your logic I would say something like "Boaz, you are a good man and hopefully one day THE TRUE God will reveal himself to you" how does that sound?

I guess it is your 'exclusivity' to God that I find interesting..can't tell if its insecurity, naivity or just plain ego..

Crusader,

The Quran is not challenging Christians on Jesus but confirming the contents of the bible. The trinity is a non-biblical related philosophy and apart from it, there is no difference between the Quranic Jesus and the Biblical one.

Rather than challenging Quranic jesus here is a simpler suggestion: C14 (Carbon 14 technology) dig out the oldest scripture of the Bible and you will be amazed to see the resemblence. Today's common bibles were re-written early last century. Ask Boaz!

Peace
Posted by Fellow_Human, Saturday, 31 December 2005 4:17:13 PM
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[Comment deleted and poster suspended for flaming]
Posted by coach, Saturday, 31 December 2005 6:14:21 PM
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"The Quran is not challenging Christians on Jesus but confirming the contents of the bible. The trinity is a non-biblical related philosophy and apart from it, there is no difference between the Quranic Jesus and the Biblical one."

First, the Qur'an in many places directly addresses the "People of the Book", [I]Ahl Al Kitab[/I], the Jews and Christians, which demands a response from them in one way or another. Surah 5:15 charges Jews and Christians with having concealed from their scriptures what has been revealed by Muhammed asserting him to be an Apostle.
"O followers of the Book! Indeed Our Apostle has come to you making clear to you much of what you concealed of the Book and passing over much; indeed, there has come to you light and a clear Book from Allah;"

But the most irreconcilable disagreement between the Qur'an and the Bible is the death of Jesus [Isa in the Qur'an] which the Qur'an explicitly denies. "And their [the Christians] saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure." - Qur'an surah 4:157

The Bible affirms Jesus death, " It was the third hour when they crucified him [Jesus]. The written notice of the charge against him read: THE KING OF THE JEWS. They crucified two robbers with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, 'So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, come down from the cross and save yourself!'" - Mark 15:25-30 (NIV)
Posted by Crusader, Monday, 2 January 2006 8:55:27 AM
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Crusader: There is Christianity and the Bible.
There is pagan islam and the koran.
As I have said previously "By their fruits you will know them"
By the way you chose a strange name as a pagan moslem lover - crusader! numbat
Posted by numbat, Monday, 2 January 2006 12:14:01 PM
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What Irfan fails to mention is that while the Koran mabye mentions Christ in a good light here or there, it denies the crucifixion, denies Mary was a virgin, and throughout most of the Koran condemns Christians as liars, cheats, disseminators of the truth, and so on.

It further encourages the murder of people of the book on numerous occassions (I can find the specific sections if anyone wishes, although just open pretty much any page of the Koran & you will find hateful stuff towards non-Muslims)

Irfan, the problem with Muslims today is that too many follow the Koran literally, which means that those things I mentioned above become real, hence the suicide bombings, beheading of Christians in Indonesia, attacks by Muslims on churches here & abroad (five burnt after the Cronulla riots).

Words, words, words, Irfan. That is all you are. Form a group that protests out the front of radical mosques like Sheik Hilali's Lakemba, and I'll join you.

Until then, how can you have any credibility?
Posted by Benjamin, Monday, 2 January 2006 6:29:09 PM
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