coach, I saw that episode of 60 minutes. Most of the quotes were from a visiting US preacher, I was disgusted by what I saw of his comments as well.

I do think you continue to make the mistake of assuming that all muslims will interpret their holy book the same way, it certainly does not happen in the christian church so I can't see why it should be assumed about muslims. Many christains are able to put aside the brutal content of the old testament and live lives which respect those around them, so do many muslims.

I have some agreement with your suggestions for dealing with the issues but don't see how "leaders" with no legal authority can be held accountable for actions of members of their communities, any more than christain leaders can be held accountable for the actions of christains, same deal for the "leaders" of any other informal community group in Australia.

Hold the leaders accountable for what they teach, but no person can be accountable for anothers actions. Some discussion about this concept on the student censorship thread.

Use those religious villification laws you hate so much to deal with teaching which damages Australian society and freedoms. Get the laws extended if necessary to any other teaching which might incite villification - teaching which suggests women are less than men, teaching which villifies gays etc.

R0bert

They call the world a cosmopolitan village, we appreciate the ease of traveling and migrating, as well as the variety and opportunities it offers. What we don’t welcome is the struggle to ensure our privacy and the safety of our immediate family.
As much as we like to be entertained by extreme and violent media reports, we would rather have our community left anonymous and secure.
It is very disturbing then, when the media suggest a dangerous criminal could have been our friendly neighbor. We would have liked him to be someone we can watch out for, someone we could identify easily and clearly, preferably the whole lot, and with a wave of our hand. For instance; People of Middle Eastern appearance would be easy to spot on a Sydney beachside eastern suburb. As for a motive; we will settle for a global Muslim hatred towards the west! A clear diagnosis, and It doesn’t help when a Muslim head of state contribute by providing extreme messages of violence.

We are afraid and hope to counter it by expressions of overconfidence and decisiveness in attacking the symbol of our fears, while on the other side there is a different sort of fear, one that is fueled by rejection and prejudice. Once the first blows are exchanged, however, and innocent people get hurt, the problem takes a new dimension, there is a conviction, and it is no more a moral issue but a reaction to violence.

Actions that are based on fear and suspicion end up with violence.
It is our duty and responsibility to our family and friends, as well as our future to prevent further escalation by any means possible and particularly by getting more involved and understand the issues and difficulties of the human fabric of the city we live in.

Ifran... it is indeed partly 'you' and most likely the circles u move in.
This forum is more the expression of the silent majority which is finding a voice.

You should thank Almighty God, that there are those among us who are actually seeking workable solutions, (not all of which you would see as in the interests of your own faith community.) RATHER than just saying and acting as 'most' average working class aussies would do when they read the kind of stuff in Sydney (gangs etc) I'm afraid there IS a very VERY strong level of 'racist' attitude towards 'non us' in the average aussie, but because he has only been conditioned by the media and gossip, his reaction is more likely to be knee jerk and volatile.

You would be surprised how peoples tone changes after a conversation about 'immigrants' when my wife roles up and I introduce her. They don't LIKE feeling 'racist' but they do have very real feelings of being intruded on, culturally.

If you continue to liken our thought out but passionate posts as 'nazism' then you will lose credibility totally. You seem to be resorting to one liners usually containing a 'name'. You can do better.

I am as ANGRY at people like Dean Mighell of the electrical trade union as I am at PC hyper multi-culturalists. He is identifying with one of the Merhi bros charged with Terrorism, and trying to turn it into a 'racism' exercise with a rally at Brunswick town hall in Feb just because Merhe is a shop steward with the ETU. Mighell is just USING the climate for personal and union interest promotion and gaining Arab Support in my opinion.

The Singapore government scrutinizes ALL Islamic teaching material. Mighell would have been jailed without trial indefinitely JUST for the 'thinking' behind his expressed views.

Please write to Mighell at the ETU and tell them what you think of this.
email etu@etu.asn.au
Article http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,17666979%255E421,00.html

teamworktom.

I am in no camp - unaligned in this instance any way; Dont subscribe to the for us or against way of thinking with which camp followers to often have to comply.

R0bert;

This is regarding your post on Thursday, December 29.

I take issue with some of your characterisations of the motivations of those that are not keen on multiculturalism, but for some reason this is probably best left to lie. More interesting to me of late is the way certain arguments gain traction and become received wisdom. I feel that one of these is the concept of diversity being a self evidently good thing, especially in the context of immigration and demography.

In particular, you make reference to the inevitable speed bumps that occur with the introduction of new groups into society, followed by the reaping of benefits that invariably happen once they are sorted out. I have heard this elsewhere on occasion. I cant remember ever having heard what these benefits are. Please could you enumerate them in clear and concrete terms? By this I mean can you explain what the specific benefits are; without resorting to rhetoric or the usual feel-good claptrap that one hears of so much of.

For example, the introduction of new cultures is (as you point out) associated with a new class of restaurants to choose from. In the modern day and age, with cookbooks, lifestyle channels, the internet and so forth this hardly seems a particularly compelling reason to import a large group of people. Therefore, I am assuming there are other more serious reasons to do so.

Mr P Pig, I expect my answer will be more vague and waffly than your would prefer. I have not written any reasearch topics on the subject but have have views on the topic. The things I write about are difficult to quantify, others may be better able to write about the economic benefits.

Firstly I work from the assumption that interaction with human beings is better than internet interaction, reading books etc. If not then the ideal life might be in an isolation cell somewhere with a good internet connection and a big screen TV.

Migrants who choose to be a part of our society enrich our society, as you mentioned they bring new restaurant opportunities but they also bring other aspects of their cultures. They bring viewpoints and outlooks which may not be readily available in a "monocultural" society. They bring ideas for different ways of doing things, they bring knowledge of other parts of the world for those who want to do so to learn.

Maybe not things you will appreciate but they are things which have enriched my life and based on my impression of posts from a number of other contributers (on various sides of the debate) I think migrants have enriched the lives of many Australians. For many the question is not about the value of migrants but rather if a particular group will on balance be beneficial to Australia.

I'm keen to see alternate viewpoints regarding the groupings of contributers. My posts on the topic where a broadbrush approach based on my understanding of what was happening in response to Irfan's comments. Understanding one anothers approach can be a significant help to working through this kind of issue.

R0bert