merideth, sorry my suggestion to Irfan that those who are concerned about the behaviour of some lebanese youth in Sydney are not mostly racist/nazi sympathisers. I guess I could have been wrong but I really don't think that most of the posters are Nazi's.

If expressing a genuniely held belief is PC then count me in.
If refusing to label an entire group based on the actions of a small part of that group is PC count me in.
If a preference for courtesy and genuine dialog is PC count me in.
If seeking solutions rather than yelling slogans is PC count me in.
If discussing the issue openly rather than "playing the man" is PC count me in.

I'd never considered myself PC before, I've shared some of the right wing adversion to the abuses of it which have harmed our society. I've been guilty of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Thankfully you and some others have provided a counterpoint to extreme PC which I had not paid enough attention to previously. That has taught me that the version of PC which is about fairness and treating others with respect is something I value.

I've still got no time for the version which is about deceit and protecting the interests of wrong doers, it's just as ugly as the persistant denegration of whole groups and some of the other tactics I see daily on these threads.

R0bert

Again, I would ask what is wrong with someone having the conviction of beliefs in Racism or Fascism?

Scotty, I feel sorry for you, because I have had an experience very different to yours in my experience with many people (not all) of Islamic faith. I work, and have friendships, with hard working, devout and patriotic, to Australia, people of Islamic background.

Teamworktom.

I guess from your post that you don't really understand Fascism to start with. Fascism is where a conglomerate of business and the government, acting in corporate ways, governs even the smallest area of personal life, not only the way you act, but the way that you think. Under the Nazi version of Fascism the individual is totally subverted by the state. You, as an individual, becomes a meaningless concept. That is why so many good men and women died to defeat Fascism.

As for racism - well there used to be two commonly used words - racism merely meant the description of the characteristics of race - for instance - pygmies are small, and some ethnic groupings are more likely to suffer from sickle cell aenemia. Racism was never about value.

Racialism, the other word, however, was about value. It talked about one race being superior to another.

No one 'race' is superior to any other in ways that matter, so that the holding of racialist views actually diminishes the person who holds those views. By all means hold racialist views, but remember that you are drastically limiting your view of the world.

I would suggest reading 'Guns, Germs and Steel' by Jared Diamond, but I cannot see you doing that.

Robert

re read your words,

“Most of this group are not racist/nazi sympathisers etc but rather concerned about protecting a lifestyle they enjoy for themselves and their kids.
Suggestions are welcome about how to ease the fears of this group.”

…and re-read my response…

”A way to ease “fear” or resentment is to:

1 Not assume we are unsound or in need of “help” with fear, we do comprehend very well.

2 If we vote and win against PC and multicultural laxity, understand our decision to do so was not a flaw that needed fixing.”

As you can see I didn’t disagree we aren’t Nazis, I instead gave you some suggestions about your need to have our fears eased.

Gain comprehension we decide and vote for ourselves.

Your persistent insistence, that you would like to help us accept, forgive or rebuild multicult is becoming like a dirty old man's stray finger.

You are blatantly reverse racist. You identified the serious concerns of Australians over islam, and asked then asked a islamist who repeatedly calls us “browncoat nazis” how to ease our “fears”.

More like Ifran wasn’t towing the PC line, by repeatedly stating his hatred for us.

Guess what we knew.

This is what you don’t seem to catch, it’s not about fluffy manners, it’s about a very ugly situation worldwide with islam, and people are not flawed for doing something about it.

The multicult is dead, we have to deal with the mess. Not keep bandaiding it.

CARNIFEX

I agree with you, Islam in its extreme form is repressive for women. Not for all though - many practise a more moderate form of Islam and manage to blend it quite successfully with life in a secular or Western society.

You may have read me wrongly, I'm no apologist for Islam. I agree with most posters here that Islamic extremism is a huge threat to the progress of peace and democracy. I part company from most of them though in that I don't see it as any less divisive or dangerous than any other religion practised in an extreme or narrow form. Christian fundamentalism I think is as much a menace to civic progress as is radical Islam. For me, the best society will always be a secular one - where people are free to practice the religion of their choice (preferably in private where the rest of us don't have to know about it!) and without it impacting on the functioning of the state in any way.

If we work toward creating that sort of society, as we once did, and make newcomers feel welcomed and part of that society, they will gradually over time adopt our more moderate approach. Your anecdotes only further illustrate to me that most migrants who settle here do want to be part of the Australian way of life.

BOAZ_David

I agree with you - we should not have to tolerate cultural practices we find abhorrent. My point is that those engaging in such practices are a minority. The vast majority of immigrants are decent people and no different to any of us - they want jobs, family, friends and happiness just like we do and first and foremost they want to become part of Australian society.

A small minority of immigrants is creating trouble at the moment, I agree with you, and we shouldn't condone this in any way. My point though is that if these people had been treated differently from the beginning they might not feel the need to isolate themselves into separate and hostile enclaves.

R0bert:

perhaps a bex and lie down before the aneurysm gets you.

In the meantime read this.

http://www.newcriterion.com/archives/24/01/its-the-demography/