Kenny, sorry no points for idiotic comments today, try again tomorrow.

Fellow-Human, I'll have a go at answering your illogical logic (point 2 above):

>>How exactly did Mohamed PBUH benefit from mentioning Jesus story in this fashion? <<

Well history shows that mohammed annihilated anyone who did not agree with his theories. He never took criticism lightly. He was the first terrorist. He wrote the first manual still used today by his followers.

>>Who exactly would have found it credible?<<

It seems he convinced a few stooges then and sadly there is no shortage today.

GoldBrick,

Interesting how FH picks the questions he can fudge and overlooks those he can’t.

You mentioned on December 14:

>>It is most likely that our sins existed before we were born. Our sins of this world are nothing more than a reflection of our current sinful status.<<

In the first book “genesis” SIN is introduced unto humanity following “the fall” of Adam and Eve. The once perfect relationship between God the Father and His creation was broken.

This factor is an essential foundation of the Judeo-Christian bible. We are all born sinners – and in desperate need for a saviour.

In the Qur’an “the fall” is a physical fall from an etherial paradise (where ever that is) an intergalactic drop (Mr. Bean style) onto earth. Adam was spiritually the same before and after the fall - therefore not any different from Jesus or any other ‘prophet’ after him.

This divergence alone makes the two books: the Bible versus the Qur’an forever contradictory and eternally irreconcilable to each other.

The first sets the scene for a saviour ‘Jesus’ - the other conveniently and essentially finds no need for ‘Jesus’.

Coach,

I will have to agree with Alchemist comment that you seem to have never studied Christianity, Islam or Judaism.

First, Mohamed PBUH had no followers for the first 13 years since the revelation of the Holy Quran. If he made it up to get support, maybe we would have said”gee its not working let me change it”. I am sure they will fudge you an answer next “faithful session” don’t be late.

Second, the Quran claims that Jesus (PBUH) is in fact the one and only Messiah and Mohamed PBUH is merely a reminder, a witness and a warner.If it was fake, why Mohamed PBUH claim no status for himself?

Third and last, the original sin is alien to the Torah (notice I never call it Old Testament). Jesus PBUH confirmed what Mohamed PBUH said about the Mosaic law: it shall remain until God inherits the earth. The idea of turning God into a Swiss Army knife is neither in the Torah or the Quran.

The Quran confirms the Bible contents. Don’t take my word for it, read Pope Honorius (648AD) writings about the commonalities across the Abraham religions.

Coach, you can either do your own homework, find your own truth and be happy with it or just keep copying from your Sunday forums and come to public forums to puke on everyone else faith.
Although it requires more thinking and hard work, can I ask you kindly to try the first option?

Fellow_Human,

No need to get nasty just because you cannot justify your points.

There are 66 Books in the bible and yet you could not find the first one "genesis".

Jesus the Christ did not need recognition or approval. He confirmed Himself by Himself. There is no verse in your qur'an explaining the meaning of the Christ (el-massih). SO how can we be talking about the same person?

So mentioning someone is not the same as "knowing" that person. (You and I may know about John Howard but his wife will know him more intimately and God will know everything about him)

Jesus said I and The Father are One. Jesus as you know lives today and reveals Himself to us daily through The Holy Spirit. We are in constant and direct communication.

The Qur'an was supposedly revealed to mohammad over 22 years. He was 40 when he first heard the voices and he died at 62. It was some 100 years before any 'book' was assembled. Is it possible that some of its content may have been lost, changed, or deleted? let alone the passages that mohammed himself abrogated over the years?

I stick to my previous comment which you have once more confirmed to me that our 2 books are completely different and will never mean the same thing. I prefer to base ‘my truth’ on a complete revelation that never changes written over 2000 years by some 40+ writers - than the words of one man over 22 years.

Coach,

First apologies if my comment offended you, no bad intentions.

I am amazed at your distorted versions of history and theology. I can see you are another “Islam bashing wanna be” but at least spend sometime learning and reading scriptures (I respect other “Mosque-teers” like Boaz and Kaktuz even though they studied distorted versions but they made the effort).

How do you expect others to respect or consider your views when you keep quoting from the Bible? Your posting above confirms that you neither know the meaning of the word Messiah, its history in Hebrew or when the Quran was written or assembled.

Btw, Jesus could have never said “I & the father are one” maybe it’s a distorted meaning translation (check old coptic scripts). Jesus confirms in the bible he is a lesser being than the father when saying he does not know when the day of judgement is but “only the father knows”. Did you really study the bible?

Anyway, I hope you find the peace you are looking for,
last posting on this thread.

Coach 3876

>>This factor is an essential foundation of the Judeo-Christian bible. We are all born sinners – and in desperate need for a saviour. <<

My convictions preceded my knowledge of the Gospels, my convictions are not dependent on my understanding of the Gospels, my understandings are a consequence of my convictions. My understanding of the Gospels are my own and not learnt from others. I chose to understand the scriptures as abstractions, the way they were given, not dividing God's abstractions except on a temporary basis, while eating and drinking the words of Jesus the Christ, in order to grow. My understanding grows daily while I am working with the word of God. Occasionally I change direction.

I am surprised that the Cu'ran gives that account of the fall, but it could have been derived from the Christian Scriptures, Rev. 12:9. Like FH says, the Cu'ran is modeled on earlier scriptures. I have never read the Cu'ran and I have no intention to do so.

The story of Adam and Eve is a parable or symbolic language, or some other form of abstraction, and can not be taken literally. The Bible describes itself as a mystery. Jesus Christ used parables so that only the few intended can understand, the rest are to receive confusion. To use Adam and Eve and the apple and the serpent as a reason for our predicament in this world is why the story was given. My belief is if we knew the truth reconciliation with God would be impossible. God only talks about matters relevant to them to whom redemption is offered. Therefore Rev. 12:9 is relevant and will be understood at the appropriate time.

I don't think the bible needs foundation, if it did then not sin but salvation and redemption.

The foundation of the New Jerusalem, the faith of the redeemed, is given by God.

The foundation of the Great Satan is provided by men, Dr. of Theology's provide doctrines of men, based on scripture, use the words 'Jesus Christ' but do not use the garments Christ provides.

I am a Muslim who does not hate Christians or any other religion and Islam does not tell us to hate other religions. I have friends at Uni who are Christians and they discuss to me about the bible and the Jehovah’s give me magazines. I laugh at those who mock Islam and those who say it is false. Look at Christianity I say, look at the many different types of Christians that exist (Jehovah’s witness, Catholics, protestants, Anglicans, orthodox...etc) and pay attention to the fact of how many of you disagree with each other on the teachings of the bible, EVEN THOUGH YOU CHRISTIANS. You have testaments that were WRITTEN BY THE ROMANS, NOT LIKE MUSLIMS PASSED ON BY GOD THROUGH OUR PROHPET. Furthermore you have an old and a new testament, which contradict each other in many aspects (seven of which i know). NORMAL PEOPLE WROTE THE TESTAMENTS! Plus many Christians argue that that Old Testament is wrong. LMAO I thought it was the words of god, how do you contradict god’s teachings. CLEARLY JUST SUCH SIMPLE THINGS AND ALREADY PROVEN TO BE WRONG!.

Islam has been there longer than Christianity and our prophets and Nabis (Jesus) have made sure of it. Its Christians who make up the figures of when Islam began because they fear the truth. So long have they believed that they were the write religion that they can't accept the fact the Islam is the correct.

Christians know that we believe in Jesus but you trick yourselves into believing that they don’t. Yet you also say Jesus is god or god’s son? How is that possible god or gods son can be killed, as you say what happened. He is god or the Son of God I though. Hmmmmm... ay

Furthermore look at the many atrocious things Christians commit adultery, you swear, you drink, you murder. Are these the good Christians?

Anyways in 2020 Islam will be the dominant religion so LIVE WITH IT.