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The Forum > Article Comments > Some will not integrate > Comments

Some will not integrate : Comments

By John Stone, published 25/11/2005

John Stone argues the Federal Government is not facing the reality of an exclusive Islamic culture.

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Apart from Johns last line, which I would guess is intended as a 'thought provoker' though I feel in very poor taste, by and large his observations are quite accurate. Mainly because they are 'observations' of real contemporary events.

He did make a key statement "Muslims, especially in large numbers"....
Indeed that is the very key to understanding the unrest in France and in most places. The greater that segment of the population, the larger the number of the 'extreme' end of the spectrum. This is undeniable. Within that 'extreme' end, the likelyhood of people prepared to take action also increases in parallel to perceived 'marginalization'.

We don't need to worry about Indonesia being 'offended' by closing the doors to 'Muslims' wishing to migrate here, just go and try as an Australian to migrate to Indonesia. They would understand our position, especially post Bali 1 and 2 + threats against our prime minister etc.

Almanac, I'm interested in whether you have noted in your 'work with muslims' (could you elaborate please ?) some examples of social security fraud as stated by Carniflex ? (do a user search on Carniflex and see his comments)

What do you make of Tim Priests paper on the "Muslim males of Telopea Street" ?
http://www.australian-news.com.au/The%20rise%20of%20Middle%20Eastern%20crime%20in%20Australia.pdf

How about this for an exercise. Do a search on 'Lebanese Christian crime in Sydney" and see how many hits you get. Surprisingly, the returns will be in fact about 'Muslim' males. But, if you can find media reports of Leb Christians pack raping Anglo/Aussie girls, by all means let me know.

So, in the absence of research to the contrary, it might be anecdotally justified to at least raise the question of whether the religious aspect of the Lebanese culture is a determining factor on their attitudes to Anglo women. When one looks closely at the racial background of the gang rapists, some of them were Pakistani Muslims.
So, "Lebanese" Muslims and "Pakistani" Muslims.... makes you think.

Try to respond on the points raised, without personal abuse.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 25 November 2005 10:54:24 AM
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I agree with both Gbkk and coach.

I don't see how Islam can integrate with Australia's western society, especially when Saudi Arabia keeps pouring money into the promotion of fundamentalist Islam. Fundamentalist Islam is easy to spot: the men wear long beards and the women wear hijabs or burqas. Moderate muslims adopt more western style dress.
The best way to promote and strengthen fundamentalist Islam in Australia is through immigration.
Posted by minuet, Friday, 25 November 2005 11:21:05 AM
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In response to BOAZ_David, who asks "I'm interested in whether you have noted in your 'work with muslims' (could you elaborate please ?) some examples of social security fraud ...?". I was for 12 years Honorary Director of Refugee Resettlement for the Australian-Afghan Association, and in that capacity assisted the passage and settlement in Australia of several hundred Afghan refugee women and children at risk. On the whole, they were fleeing Soviet Marxist-Leninists and (later) the Taliban; on the whole, Australians I discussed my work with at that time opposed my work. Anti-Muslim racism, you see, is not so new and is very deep-seated in Australia -- just read Henry Lawson-era poets and authors. Racism is usually so ingrained from birth that, like colour-blindness, often the sufferers lack awareness of it. This is apparent from some of the posts on this page.
No, the only social security fraud I've seen has been by non-Muslims.

In response to Leigh, who writes: "All the name calling [John Stone] receives on 'On Line Opinion' indicates that he is right": I'm trying to meet your logic halfway, but concede defeat.
Posted by Almanac, Friday, 25 November 2005 11:23:17 AM
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Forget religion, race etc etc.

Just dont let in refugees or those fleeing anywhere, unstable situations end up deeply effecting those involved, and things such as conflict etc is the norm. It is a strain on our economy and on our social services. What i am saying here is harsh, but somewhere along the line resolving this issue will involve a level of harshness. I just do not think that we can discriminate on religous grounds, not in this day and age, not if we dont want to be isolated.

We are a backwater in the world with a massive skill shortage, lets up the anti on skilled workers, be more practical and slighly more sympathetic on the means testing, and pump through people based on skills, definately not religion. i bet we would achieve a similarly effective result, as skilled imigrants generally have differing backgrounds and values.

I know this is discriminating somewhat, but there are over 100 countries out there, many muslim, and they have an extensive choice away from this country. If they want to come here, great, let them develop elsewhere and come here when skilled, lets become the university of the world with our immigration policies.
Posted by Realist, Friday, 25 November 2005 11:35:26 AM
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John would have marched proudly in his black shirt and his long dagger and found recruits from these pages. John has got one thing right some people will never integrate into the Modern Western world and he is one of them. Funny he uses the expelling of the Moors (and Jews) from what was to become Spain, as this act stuffed out the one of the candles that kept European civilization going through the dark ages. The pair that did it nearly plunge it into another one. The Arabs gave the world a mathematical concept without which the modern world would not exist and it describes Mr. Stone aptly a “zero”.
Posted by Kenny, Friday, 25 November 2005 11:48:55 AM
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<<"The Arabs worked with the sexagesimal system inherited from the Babylonians via the Greeks, but often converted numbers to the decimal system for complex calculations since it was easier. They called base-60 numbers the arithmetic of the astronomers. They also incorporated elements of the Indian system Ð including adding zero to the number system.">>
http://www.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/mathematics.html

Gee Kenny.... I find a lot of 'borrowed' stuff there, but I'm sure you will give us chapter and verse about how original the Arabs were, and how dimwitted all the 'rest' were, learning nothing from the greeks etc.......should we put you on the 'hit list' for the next inquistion ? :)

Almanac,
regrding social security fraud, I recommend strongly that you communicate if possible with Carniflex, as his allegations are MOST serious. If you did not encounter them, it may be due to the particular ethnicity of those you were working with, being Afghan, as opposed to Lebanese Muslims. I cannot comment on the veracity of Carniflex claims, but he seems to have solid evidence in his work as a park ranger and security guard.

On the issue of Afghans, I hope that ALL cultures which come to Australia are given 'cultural manners' classes. For example, you don't goto a public place, and turn on LOUD music of your own language and then all wander off as if you are the only race there, leaving all the Australians to endure the blaring sound of culturally offensive music, as happened to me once at Silvan Reservior.

Once migrants learn basic good manners and Australian cultural norms, and more important to respect them, there will be much less 'disliking of and stereotyping of the other' going on.

Banjo Patterson and Henry Lawson were products of their time, but I don't recall 'technical racism' in their writings ? Tell more pls.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 25 November 2005 12:10:39 PM
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