Kay – firstly I didn’t mean to insult you. I am concerned at the knee-jerk reaction whenever a Muslim makes a comment about anything. I don’t know what the context was when this group of Muslims made their comments. Personally, I think Christmas is over commercialised, I’m not a Christian, so for me Christmas is about getting together with my family. Should I be condemned for this POV?

Should ALL Muslims be judged when one or more makes a comment?

Following that logic, should ALL Christians be condemned for any of the stupid and inappropriate statements made by Fred Nile or George Pell?

For that matter should all Christians be condemned because David believes that all women should put their careers on hold until they have finished raising children? I tell BD that I disagree and see raising children as something to be shared by both parents. But he is entitled to his POV.

Do you see the point I am trying to make?

I am aware that there are people in this wide brown land of ours who loath our values; our way of life. Some of them may well be Muslim and there are plenty who aren’t. I am also pragmatic enough to realise that these extremists are in the minority.

Should we be vigilant – always, but not to the extent where we react at every little opinion that does not reflect our world view – its not a good way to live.

I don’t believe that quoting texts from the bible, quran, torah or whatever proves anything. Yet there are people who believe that they mean everything. Should I condemn these people? Of course not, these texts mean a great deal to them. I would prefer that they engage in debate rather than quotations, but last time I looked I wasn’t master of the universe.

Speak out against those who would oppress us by all means. We don’t want what happened to Bashir to happen to our way of life. Just be certain of who, what and why you are condemning someone first.

Thank you

Dianne

PS - Kay - "the storm of hatred" I refered to wasn't meant to be aimed at you rather the many posters who do nothing but malign Muslims.

Thank you

Scout,

Good worldviewish logic - I respect your views however there is a master of the universe - his name is Jesus - I am curious as how you chose not to believe this fact? Do you know what you are refusing to accept? Or is it mere arrogance on your part?

coach, when he gets control of his own family/house/church/followers such that they actually start to appear to be "the salt of the earth" then maybe some of us who don't cuurently accept the viewpoint you express might take note. Maybe some more of the Annanias and Saphira (I know I have probably spelt that incorrectly) incidents might be a start.

I've no idea how consistent you are to your own beliefs so the following is not a personal reflection on your own "christain walk" rather a reflection on the overall state of the "body of christ". I'm aware that some (BD I suspect and some of my friends) try very hard to live according to their beliefs. At the same time plenty of people who believe other things also live by those beliefs as effectively.

While the christian church continues to be the mess that it is your claims seem like the guy driving a clapped out old Datsun pulling up beside the lady in the new Monaro and reving the engine looking for a drag race. Its a sad joke. What the church claims it's got does not look like it works from out here and until it starts to look like it makes a difference it is of no interest to some of us.

Sorry if this seems harsh, I'm getting very tired of the continual attempts by some christian posters to jam your beliefs down the throats of the rest of us. Live the walk rather than talking the talk.

R0bert

Dear Scout
the interaction between you and Kay, is very illustrative of one major point I've been attempting to make.

1/ On a PERSONAL level, people of pretty much any faith are good neighbours and citizens, friendly and helpful. Few are saying any different.
Please be advised, that subjecting Islam (or any faith) to critical scrutiny is a valid and vital part of cultural behavior. It's not a sign of 'hate' as so many wrongly understand.

2/ On a COLLECTIVE BEHAVIOR level, things change. The very fact that a group (not an individual) of Muslims are seeking to debate the 'tone' of Christmas with the goal of 'toning it down' is quite indicative of this fact. Collectively, social groups seek to protect and advance issues suited to their own values. Often, this is at the expense of the values of others. As shown by the idea of 'toning down' Christmas Kay mentioned. (see point 3 below though on that)

3/ This is the 'actual' social outcome of large numbers of ANY 'different' faith within a prevailing cultural setting. But, interestingly, no such calls are made by Buddhists, Bahai, Jews etc.

To be honest, I would tend to suspect that they are more interested in toning down the 'commercialization' of Christmas, (giving them the benefit of the doubt) but I really don't know enough facts at this stage. If they are just on about that, I would be wholeheartedly in agreement. The true meaning of Christmas HAS been hijacked by commercial interests. But if they ARE seeking to downplay the 'God the Son born into the world' aspect, I take serious issue with it.

The day we take Christ out of Christmas, we are dimished and left with just a selfish/commercial cultural skeleton.

As for you not yet knowing the Lord, well, u can make of the season what you wish, and that is absolutely your right, but I do feel a bit sad for you not apprehending the joy at the deepest level of our spirits that remembering "Him" does give.

Dear Coach (Dianne)

Thank you for your post. I really enjoyed reading it. Ha! Ha! your point about Fred Nile et al was a good one.

In common with you, people who quote the Bible or Kuran ad infinitum drive me nuts. But then, what would the world be like without a character like BOAZ_David? BD knows that he drives me nuts, but when I siphon out all of the quotes and links, I tend to see a very nice human being.

Dianne, I was born into a Christian household. Christened, Holy Communion, taught Sunday School. Read the Bible many times by the age of 16 years. That was it for me. I have not attended "church" since - except for weddings, funerals and the like. I think that anyone who believes every word in the Bible perse is unable to see outside of the square - is unable to think laterally - is unable to question. I think that is very said. Even so, having said that, I still hold with and practice the Christian Values that I was reared with - which seem similar to your own. Caring for people, loving people, respecting people.

RObert
Loved you car analogy.

BD - welcome back - you are such a character!

Cheers all
Kay