numbat,

I sympathise with you trying to reason with the likes of FH – been there myself.

The facts are that what all the Islamic books teach is a complete alien ‘gospel’ to the word of God, known as the bible.

For ‘them’ to admit this is to reject everything they stand for. Those among them who start questioning their beliefs and read our bible become Christians. Can you imagine the calamity that this enlightenment can bring to islam?

Historically speaking there are stages of behaviour for islam - known as 'jihad' - depending on the circumstances and the land they are present in.

For example when their self proclaimed apostle started his organization in Mecca he had very few followers so you read in his text a nice almost prosaic gospel. He had to be passive and restrained and counting on his uncle’s generosity and protection from his once fellow pagans idolaters.

When he had to flee persecution to Medina, he met new critics like Jews and Christian-Jews who bluntly told him the truth and what he could do with his prophethood. So that’s the second phase of islam: ‘dialogue’. Engaging the non-muslims in discussions and give them the choices of conversion, submission or death.

With power acquired that way, after building a army of followers he returns to Mecca and slaughters the lot and re-establish himself as the conqueror; which is full aggression against the enemies of Allah (the third stage of islam or jihad).

So don’t be fooled by cheap talk and propaganda. The likes of FH are simply marking time UNTIL the goal of islam is achieved, that is the conquest of all lands back to Allah and the establishment of Islamic states.

Fellow_Human,
I assume you are busy with your website. Hope it is meeting your goals.

However I am waiting for your answer to:

1.How God is revealed in our world and society today.
2.How was he revealed in Christ Jesus?
3.Is the revelation of God based in our believing in one God the prophets and holy books, saying prayers five times a day, observing ramadan, making a trip to Medina, and giving assistance to the needy?

How is God revealed? Are the above actions appeasment of his anger, or methods of avoiding the anger of the Muslim religious police.

Fellow_Human: I really do not know where to begin but I will try. These quotes will not be in order so bear with me and learn about your pagan religion.
United States:"Ultimately we can never be full citizens of this country..." Ihsan bagby. (what about this country?)
Great Britain: "WE don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians.. only between muslems and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value" sheikh omar bakari
Australia: "I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion..." abu bakr, moslem cleric
47.4: When you meet unbelievers, strike off their heads [my remarks-like the Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia recently]; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.
"O ye who believe! murder those of the disbelievers.... (repentance:28)
"O believers, do not make friends with the Jews or Christians; whoso of you makes them his friend is one of them" (The Table:55)
A real religion of peace eh F_M? numbat

Coach,

Your ‘reason’ tell you about one big conspiracy theory by Muslims to take over the world! If this is what you call ‘reason’, can you share your fantasy or hallucination?

Philo,

Let me try,

1. Through his creation (animals, plants), earth, life, death, astrology, etc..
2. Jesus pbuh is his word, miracle and messenger of tolerance. Sent to enforce the spiritual meaning of the commandments and free the world from the dogmatic practice of religion.
3. Learning the wisdom of the Holy books, the stories of the prophets, following the commandments is really all you need. Appeasing anger along with more than 70 other good quality is mentioned in the Holy Quran are choices we can make to be closer to God. Being closer to god is by recognising and practising good qualities.

Peace,

Numbat,

If you want to discuss why focus on a bunch of radicals then claim they represent Islam? Most Imams (in Australia or overseas) promote peace and co-existence.

As for your reference to the Holy book, the verse you quoted (if you read the following and previous verse refers to those ‘who fight you’ and always followed by ‘and shall not transgress’ commandment. Muslims are not allowed to fight anyone if not defending their land or property from an aggression. Agressor is not exclusive to non-Muslims by the way because the Quran defines that some agressors could be Muslims (like when Iraq invaded Kuwait for example).

If you bothered to read all references to Jews and Christians in the Quran you will see many more quotes about defining their good qualities and how Muslims can trust them with their properties and money. The verse you chose talks about some of the hypocrites who want to be-friend Muslims only to lure them away from the right path.

Peace,