Philo, could you tell me what qualifications the preachers in the evangelistic pentecostal Austrralian churches, have in theology and social sciences to practise. It is interesting that many are fed up with islams non answers to questions, on the other hand the christians also avoid answers.

Don't get a false sense of security when it appears the christians are supportive, they have their own agenda and have learnt over many failures that force against knowledgeable people doesn't work. So now they try to use psychology and faked kindness.

I have just returned from a quick trip to Sweden, Austria and the Netherlands on business. I haven't made this trip for a couple of years and was astonished at how changed it has become. It is nothing to have muslims sneer at you, refuse to talk, to do business unless you adhere to their requirements. Needless to say little business was done with those Islamic business people.

In Sweden, rape has increased more than 300% in the last 3 years, violent assault and robbery by more than 700%. 96.6% of this increase is by muslim immigrants and refugees. During this year there has been bombings, and one train hijack, all by muslims. In Austria the figures are about the same, but they have another phenomena, verbal abuse and intimidation by muslims, (just like Australia). They are everywhere, and over 90% are on welfare. The Austrians are drawing up legislation to rid their country of what they call "these blights on our society", by sending them all back to their original countries. All their women are covered, no choice there.

You will also note that the vast majority of muslim immigrants to this country are also on welfare. In fact more than 85 % of muslims here are receiving the dole or suspect disability benefits.

Goldbrick, your gonna choke on the junk your spewing out.

"Seek and you shall find. God searches your heart, you could find Him there. "

Umm Goldbrick, 101 in biology, the heart pumps blood,no magic in there, you must have missed that day at school :)

GoldBrick,
"The Roman Catholic Church is dammed [damned] by prophesy".
What prophesy and what prophet?
When does Paul specifically contradict Christ?

Towards a Balance between Faith and Reason

France is to be commended for its exhibition of the Golden Age of Arab science, which according to Le Monde news has just opened at the Institute de Monde Arabe in Paris From the 8th to the 14th century Islam ruled an area stretching from the Iberian peninsula to India. For more than 600 years the construction of this empire went hand in hand with intense scientific activity that Western interests in recent centuries have been either slow to recognise, or there has been a deliberate attempt possibly more likely through a misguided Christianity, to keep this precious scientific information unimportant. This is especially so in our primary and in our high schools today, while in Western universities Islamic contributions to science are certainly not given the prominence they should be given.

According to Le Monde, the prime movers during the above Golden Age, were the Abbasid Caliphs, who demanded that all important works in Greek, Syrian or Indian Sanskrit should be translated into Arabic, making it a vector for the transmission of learning, triggering intellectual activity unprecedented in the history of science.

A publication called Science in Society tells how in cities like Gondeshapur in Persia, or present Iran, there were international communities of academics and scholars. Some, like the Nestorians, had been forced to flee from Christian lands because of their beliefs.

The great benefit to later Western science, was that though the basic scientific ideas had been passed down from the early Greeks into famous edifices like the Great Library of Alexandria in Egypt, the Islamics more than kept up the scientific interest, these advances bearing names such as Ibn Sina, who produced a standard medical text still in use in the 17th century. Al Tusu, an astronomer whose works enabled Copernicus later to prove that the earth moved around the sun. Then Abu Jafer Muhamed, who gave us algebra and algorithims now central to modern computiing. And also Ibn al-Haytham whose work on vision and light helped Newton to formulate his theories on optics.

Part Two

It is so interesting these days, that articles on Islam’s contributions to Western advancement, are mentioned more in philosophical journals than in standard historical publications. Moreover we never find our Christian pastors these days admitting that it was in the Eleventh Century that Muslim scholars lifted Christianity out of the Dark Ages with suggestions backed by Aristotlian research that sound faith must be tempered by reason. It was from this information that the French monk Peter Abelard built an essay called the Search for Enquiry.

Indeed, Abelard’s Islamic-prompted essay was later taken up by St Thomas Aquinas who himself wrote a huge thesis trying to prove how reason was necessary to balance faith. From it grew Scholasticism which also had its difficulties, but moral philosophy much more than religion does tell us that it was Peter Abelard’s Muslim- sponsored Search for Enquiry that not only saved Western Christianity, but opened the historical gateway not only to the Rennaisance, but the Ages of Reason and Enlightenment.

Back to the “Science and Society” article we find it ends with the scary suggestion, that if the Muslims had not been understanding enough to get us out of the Dark Ages of Christianity, with the keys to scientific and industrial advancement, we might still be trying to reach the Rennaissance?

George C, WA - Bushbred

The Alchemist,
You asked me about qualifications of Ministers of Australian Penticostal Churches. Frankly I do not know as they are not churches I attend. They have their own college of Ministry training in Western Sydney.

The Church I attend our Pastor is 4 years college trained in theology and pastoral care, holds Masters in history, and degrees in social welfare. He is taking up a position as community leason officer for Department of Community Care meeting welfare needs in Western Sydney in the new year.

I can also speak of the work done by Wesley, as today I attended the book launch of the Rev. Dr Gordon Moyes. He is a leader in welfare organisations, employment training, arts and media comunications, sits on the board of several private hospitals, is a politician who heads many Government inquiries, and coordinates Church mission. His work is outlined in his auto biography "Leaving a Legacy". He is a personal advisor to the Government on welfare issues. However this post would be better in: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3843