come down from your 'IVORY TOWERS'!!

It is true - Islamic culture is at conflict with Austrlian society and there is a 'Muslim problem' in Australia.

It is not about terrorism - It is about issues in our society which have existed for 15 years!!

Let me outline 'some' of what Lebanese Muslims get up to in Sydney - in Lakemba, Punchbowl, Bankstown etc;

-Australian girls are gang raped, not for 'pleasure' or for 'power' as is common in rape, but because they are Australian and are hated. There has been a spate of such attacks - girls are told they deserve it because they are 'Aussie sluts" and that they will be raped "Leb style" - they are passed around to car loads of "cousins" who are contacted on mobile phones.

-There is a special police task force working in the Western suburbs, Task Force Gain, set up to fight "Lebanese gangs" - the NSW Police use this description.

-There has been a culture of 'hand guns' and 'drive by shootings' introduced into Sydney by Lebanese - the drive by shooting on the Lakemba Police Station; the double murder drive by shooting in the 'Rocks' Sydney.

-NSW Police are shot at whenever they drive down Talopea St. Punchbowl - it is documented and as been reported in the press.

-Every day in the Daily Telegraph there will be some report where the Police are seeking men "of middle eastern appearance", i.e. Lebanese.

It is just 'some' of what happens every day - Lebanese Muslims hate Australia and do not see themselves as Australian - they call themselves "Lebs" and they call us "Aussie Skips" - it is not racist to say what is happening!!

HAND YOUR DAUGTHER TO THE LEBS TO BE GANG RAPED IN AUSTRALIAN SOCIETY BECUASE SHE IS AUSTRALIAN AND A HATED "INFIDEL", AND THEN TELL ME IF IT IS ""RACIST"" TO SAY THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH LEBANESE MUSLIMS WHO HATE AUSTRALIA!!

Those who don't want to acknowledge that there is indeed a growing middle-eastern crime problem, you are sadly kidding yourselves.

Such views are common among those who's sole experience of multiculturalism is the restaurant they visit on a weekly basis, with their everyday lives in North Sydney being perforated only by those migrants who have assimilated nicely....

I've mentioned here before that I grew up in the low-income housing estates with predominantly the Vietnamese & Lebanese, and stood by why these two ethnocentric groups had vicious gang fights, often ending up with the police being called up to our local high school, and ambulances to ferry the seriously injured to hospital.

After living among these communities, I think I am qualified to say that they are indeed ethnocentric, I'd go as far to say racist to the core, I know all the little nuances that the Geoffrey Brahm Levy's of this world have no idea about!

That an Australian girl can be called a slut for simply being white, or an Australian guy can be viciously assaulted for simply being white, and that Lebanese used to go out "Aussie bashing" in my area on weekends. That every single Lebanese I knew was a lunatic when it came to girls, as though they thought they were all Casanova's.....I could have told the police that those gang rapes were going to happen in 1992, when I was 15!

I encourage the bigoted, self hating whites out there to read up on the anthropologist Dr. Richard Basham, who has written extensively on Asian & middle-eastern crime. He doesn't mince words, he examines that it is their culture which gives rise to the gun violence, the drug pushing, ect.

To deny we are in serious trouble however, is cowardly, but, although there are lunatics in this very forum who wish to use statistics to deny such problems, they are real, just as they are real wherever Muslims settle in the west......

SHOSHANA

Hmm I don’t think you read my last line very closely... The scenario you described is quite ok... culturally acceptable “The Host” invites guests (note..invites not forces) to share in thanx for the meal. Very nice. What I said was “If I as a GUEST goto YOUR house and start telling you that it’s MY custom to give thanx, and therefore we should do it”.....that.. is bad manners, ignorance and rudeness. ( I only ‘shout’ when the unshouted point is not seen :)

I’m starting to gain an insight into your life now, it seems you enjoy cross cultural interaction, as do I. When I’m in Malaysia, they all tell me I’m almost not even like a white man, because my language and manner are so...’local’... This is great. We should not let our race or culture be a barrier between us and healthy friendly caring cross cultural relationships

Social dynamics and the ‘political’ animal in us all, deep down, desires that which is ‘most familiar’ and within our comfort zone to be the ‘prevailing’ undertone of social life. Its not particularly manifest in the average person who just wants to get on with life, but it is demonstrated in the dynamic/get up and go/social entrepreneur and empire builder that brought us the Lenins, Mao’s Napoloens, Gengis Khans etc..

People at the cutting edge of a society, at the top, recognize the inherent dangers in social and political trends. Ghengis Khan first began his wars as a response to discriminatory trade issues, rather than the desire to ‘rule the world’.

Please note carefully... that at least in my case, I do not consider ‘all muslims’ to be any worse than my own mob. I just listen to the 3 prophets History, Anthropology, Psychology.

I rather like Amos also :) Have you read that book ? Fascinating how he condemned all the nations in a circle around Israel...(one can see the Israelites agreeing..nodding as he lists them one by one..). only to focus in on ‘them’ at the end. None of us are ‘without sin’.

If you want to argue that there is a "Muslim problem" because 0.02 percent of Muslim-Australian's commit crime, then you have accept that there is a problem with Christians because of the crime Christian-Australian's commit.

If you want to argue (as Thor has done) that there is a "Muslim problem" because a bunch of racists (who just happen to define themselves as Muslims because they feel a sense of affiliation with other people called Muslims) behave in a racist way then you have to accept that you are not talking about religion or a problem with a religion, but about racism.

If you want to argue that Muslims in Australia are in-fact "guests" of the host nation, someone likened it to having people over for dinner, then you are displaying a level of blatant ignorance to the fundatmental right of citizenship. If you are relaxed and comfortable thinking about Muslims in this way (as guests, not as citizens with rights) and feel that Muslims should have to demostrate their loyalty the host nation, then you are trying to introduce two-tier citizenship:

"Muslim citizens have the right to be bad as much as non-Muslims have a right to be bad; you don’t take away citizenship of people because you don’t agree with their views. So once you start saying Well actually, we’re going to put a loyalty test, or we’re going to put an extra standard for Muslims to behave. Well what’s to stop them turning round and saying Well actually, you’re already treating us like citizens." http://www.abc.net.au/rn/relig/spirit/stories/s1416682.htm

Australia does not face a Muslim problem. If suffers from racism, sexism and homophobia and many other "isms".

Boaz david:"I as a GUEST goto YOUR house and start telling you that it’s MY custom to give thanx, and therefore we should do it”.....that.. is bad manners, ignorance and rudeness."

My response to that included the observation that not only did the Muslim guest not insist his Christian hosts say prayers with him, he in fact joined in quite happily with them.

If your example was supposed to be an analogy ie that Muslims live in Australia as 'guests' of the host nation, well I missed that completely, right off my screen. They are Australian residents/citizens same as you and me, as an analogy it just doesn’t wash, far too obscure. Thanks to Strayan to pointing this out - I sometimes think I live on a different planet to BD and others.

The personal stories I occasionally pop in are an attempt to redress the balance in response to the poison and vitriol that emanates from some posts about all Muslims.

Academic research to be published later this year correlates ‘negative attitudes’ about certain groups within society, with ‘false beliefs’ held about those groups. My observation is that those with 'negative attitudes' defend their 'false beliefs' to the death regardless of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.