Thankyou for your expressions of agreement Robert.

Your suggestions regarding minimum obligations for migration are reasonable and sensible, I would not wish to adjust it in any way.
I really believe one of them is something a lot of people have to wake up and accept – it is the one which is most often ignored. It is, if you don’t like it here and cannot accept the Australian way, leave!
The issue of assimilation is a matter of time – a generational process. I would recall the majority of “Australians” were born or derive from “British” origins. I would ike to point out that the Celts moved west and North when the Angles and then the Saxons moved into England. The Romans came and went (leaving their contribution to the gene pool) and of course the Normans put down roots too. The “United Kingdom” is a nation built on assimilation across the generations, the capacity of Australia to do the same is proven by inherited experience.

David_BOAZ – I guess the “challenge for Muslims” which you illustrate is one which Muslims alone have to face. Assimilation fails when one segment demands the “right of regression” (not sure if "regression" is the right word to use but it sort of “fits”)– hence organisations like the IRA and the Orange Orders (and their Muslim equivalents) take the “intitative” to the detriment of everyone else. Having seen the consequences of the actions of those who resist assimilation, Roberts option, “to leave” becomes even more critical and the action of the current UK government, to “expel” “regressives” even more reasonable

Trinity,
The wearing of the head covering by Muslim women is a sign to other men she is in subjection to her husband. On one occasion when entering a store in Auburn a Malaysan Muslim woman with full head covering was coming out the door so I stept aside to allow her to exit, and our eyes happened to meet, as under Shari'ah law she cried out; "A man! A man! meaning a man has attempted to rape me. In the Western Nations the head covering remains as a political statement to indicate fundamental adherence to the law of Allah. It is not Muslim it has its roots in Arabic culture. They do not see it as optinal, but as essential when mixing socially when males are present. I suggest you might visit the Islamic School at Plumpton and observe the young girls in full head covering.

Quote, "Muslim women are vital intelligent women too - they are entitled to where the hijab if they want even if you and I find it hard to understand why they would cover their heads."
______________________________________
Col,
Quote, "The issue of assimilation is a matter of time – a generational process."

I realise you have high hopes that Muslims will assimilate. The IRA did change but they did not have thousands of scholars devoted to the study of text to retain their culture, laws and world view. Examine what is happening in France, Holland, Canada etc where large numbers of them form ghettos and have their own local laws. The definitions of the religious Immams keeps constant check on any discenting movement from the Qur'anic authority, and adopting Western culture.

The thousands of years of culture behind the zealot Jews at Masada and their antagonistic feelings toward the Romans will give you some similar understanding of their committment while goverened by Western laws. Jesus when encouraged by the leader of the Jewish zealots to join them rebuked him as the Satan [the opponent of God]. They preferred to take their own life by commiting suicide rather than being slaughtered by unclean Roman dogs.

Unconquered Sun

thanx for that interesting response.
Actually, pity we can't enjoy a cuppa and a natter about the relationship between the Old and New Testaments. There isn't really any condtradiction, though the way some people preach, one could think there is.
'Eye for an Eye', believe it or not is a 'limit' rather than about vengence, which would take not just an eye, but probably a leg as well. Justice says "You do the crime.. you do the time. or.. if u steal $20, u repay $20 or you do an equivalent time in the clanger.

Christ showed that the intent of the law (all along) was to foster brotherly love among mankind. He was the fulfillment and enabler in the most perfect sense.

If you can stand a bit of reading.. check out Isaiah Chapter 40 right through to 53, to see how the 'servant' concept is developed. In chapter 53, you will meet the death and resurrection of Christ being alluded to very strongly. "He was wounded for our transgressions"

Those chapters speak about a 'servant' of God, who is sometimes Israel the nation, and other times... someone else.

TRINITY ur right, not 'all' Muslims are extremists, but in community they become strong support 'by default' for the agenda drivers. Can you imagine them marching in the streets in protest at the extremists winning a concession so that all Muslims can have friday off and also at least 3 extra breaks a day during working hours to pray ? I kinda cannot see that happening.

If the radicals DO gain control of the major mosques in Melbourne, (they succeeded apparently by ill means in Preston).. then be afraid... very afraid.

Or even better... give ur heart to the Lord and experience the peace only He can give. :)

cheers

Why are Muslim women allowed to wear that black thing over their heads when they enter a bank - with only their eyes in view - when Aussie bike riders have to remove their helmets?

Simple question.

Bet there is not a simple answer?

Bet Muslim pro-activists will provide me with myriad bull rationalisations for this concrete, unfair, and unequal reality!

Cheers
Kay

David B; you’ve commented before about Muslims wanting to take Fridays off. What’s your take on Jews who won’t work Saturdays or the Jewish holy days scattered throughout out the year (approx 10 days) and leave work early on Fridays in winter months in order to be home before the sun sets.

What about the Jews who like to live close to each other, who won’t share meals with non-Jews because they will only eat Kosher food?

How does this fit in with your idealised Judaeo-Christian world?

I’m ranging through in my mind all the Muslims I know and can’t think of one who won’t work on a Friday. I’m sure there must be some but not in the circles I mix with.

But you are such an expert on Muslims I must of course be wrong

Shoshana...

glad u raised the Jewish issues

and 'of course'..... your not wrong

Well.. to be honest, I think its just as unfair on an employer to want time off for those reasons for Jews as it is for Muslims.

If a Jewish person applied for a job with me, I would make clear the situation just as I would not give 'smoke breaks' apart from the normal appointed times for morning and afternoon tea.

Having said that, many workplaces I know finish quite early on friday anyway..

On the food laws, its a bit sad that food which is only 'ritually' unclean can prevent us having good fellowship don't u think. I know the principle about the 'blood' and we also share that conviction, but kosher is not neccessarily a fufilment of that requirement, I think it goes further than needed. Drinking blood was associated with idolatry in pagan circles. I'll guarantee there is still a little blood in an animal slaughtered in a kocher way also.. even a few drops.

I wish every Jew who will not eat Pork would also have passion for their faith and not just refrain for 'cultural reasons'.

Your Muslim friends may well not seek the time off .. a good thing.
But looking at the goals of the ICV they are clear enough that in time, with more clout, they would (as others are.. Canada) seek more flexibility in this. This issue applies also to Sikhs and beards in the emergency services, and helmet wearing.

If I've rubbed you the wrong way with some of my strongly worded posts, forgive me, I'd rather work together towards better understanding than being adversarial.
I'm quite confrontational deliberately at times.. to get thinking going.