grateful,

I haven’t professed a deep knowledge of anything. But I do know enough about the history of secularism and the enlightenment to understand that it is only because of these things that moderates (of all religions) are more inclined to, and allowed to, interpret and cherry pick their religious doctrines in the nicest and most civilised way possible.

I don’t know why you’re spruiking the contribution of Muslims to the European renaissance. Christians contributed to Enlightenment. So what? Progress usually occurs despite religion, not because of it. Everyone in those days identified with some religion somehow, so it’s hardly surprising that a Muslim did this or that a Christian did that.

Christians even try to attribute Christianity itself to modern science as a supposedly necessary factor, with nonsense about an orderly creator, seemingly unaware that the presence of a creator was not only unnecessary inspire a curiosity about an apparent orderliness, but may only have been attributed to it so as to prevent arousing the ire of an anti-scientific religious establishment.

Religion has provided us with nothing positive or constructive that could not have possibly arisen through secular means.

It is not my wish to disparage any Poster on this Forum, but it seems to me that the more time and effort expended (for example) on the relative ages of certain young women, and the implications thereof, the further we depart from what I believe is the crucial point the Author wishes to make. I'm not saying that such discussion is irrelevant, only that it is largely tangential and thus unproductive.

IMO the essential point the Author makes is when she states: "...we are not fighting terrorism, which is only a tactic, we are fighting an ideology that makes use of terrorism. In order to defeat this ideology, we must first name it, and then understand it."

Earlier the Author had stated that: "...The focus on the violence of ISIS and the conflicts in the Middle East is distracting from the problems inherent in Islam itself...", and concludes the article by recommending that all relevant Muslim persons of authority "...abrogate all verses in the Koran advocating violence - and to implement this in their preaching and teaching in mosques, schools and elsewhere...". The Author's conclusion appears logical given her previous explanation of the source of violence being "...inherent in Islam itself...".

Trouble is, logic does not apply here; the Author would be well aware that asking any Muslim to "abrogate" or deny anything in the Koran is asking that person to deny the very word of God; thus is it written and cannot be changed. Now while it appears to be the case that a Muslim person may (at the least) be evasive when questioned upon matters directly informing their faith, the reasons they may do so will vary I suspect depending upon the perceived threat to them.

TBC

2. Continued from above:

It is the case that some Muslim scholars in different countries have denounced violence and in particular have singled out ISIS and other similar groups for public criticism. But even these learned men cannot, and/or dare not change or deny what is already written in the Koran, and I am guessing that they can only hope for their views to be understood, accepted and followed by the “mainstream”.

So in a very real sense we are at an impasse in attempting to deal with the vexed subject of “Islamic violence”. Some among us, such as Senator Hanson and others, have definite views on “what needs to be done”, including the cessation of Muslim immigration into Australia. Let’s say eventually that becomes a matter of Federal legislation, by then I would suggest that particular “horse” would have well and truly bolted.

And what of those who say: “Let’s deport the whole bloody lot of them”? OK, but just how do you go about doing that? One thing I can guarantee you is that you will succeed in driving the Muslim Faith underground, in the same way historically that other groups have done in order to survive. What then do you do? At this point I respectfully remind you of the comment above from AJ Philips (I think it was) about witches. Would you or a family member be prepared to go on a Government sanctioned round-up, only to be faced with constant denials? What’s next, torture?

Please give some thought for a moment for the huge and monumentally expensive apparatus required to achieve this mass deportation, and how is it to be paid for? Perhaps a Special Taxation Levy being implemented (anything up to a 50% increase), and once in place, almost impossible to get rid of. Every time you see a truck full of hapless Muslims go by on their way to the docks you can gleefully say: “There’s my taxes at work”.

TBC

3. Continued from above:

If you reckon that I am being far-fetched, think again. Once something like this is allowed to start, where do you stop? Who knows, by the time such a scheme is up and running, economic circumstances in Australia may have deteriorated to such an extent that anyone seen to be too dangerous, too unproductive, too old, too this, too that, becomes fair game.

What we all need to do is think this whole matter through very, very carefully.

' Please give some thought for a moment for the huge and monumentally expensive apparatus required to achieve this mass deportation, '

Pilgrim

I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks deporting all muslims is a viable option nor would most want that. What is viable is to learn from our mistakes and minimise the risk by accepting refugees and others who are thankful for refuge and who don't hate western people who are not muslims. Not that difficult really, just needs a pollie with a bit of guts to stare down the white australian hating media such as the abc.

yea the latest from Germany with Afghan refugee raping and murdering a young 19 year old medical student. Her parents worked for the EU.Some quotes

' Maria - who died from drowning - was portrayed as 'the victim of Merkel's welcome culture'.

' Public anger about the refugee arrivals has been stoked by high-profile crimes involving immigrants, including alleged rapes and other sex attacks at public swimming pools.'

' such terrible crimes was Julia Klöckner, a politician from Mrs Merkel's CDU party, who said: 'Such brutality is unfortunately perpetuated by natives and foreigners. This unfortunately is not a new phenomenon.'

sounds a little like what was going on in Cronulla before the whites got labelled racist when protesting.