David:
<<Grateful, the problem with your argument is that what you yourself believe about your religion may be OK, but the demonstrated fact, confirmed by events in Melbourne in recent days, is that there are also men who also profess to belong to the Muslim faith, who take a contrary point of view. Now, one might ask, from whence does that point of view have its source. Also, one might also ask, what are the mullars in Australia doing to dispel these ideas. Those of us outside your faith need to have some public assurances and we do not seem to be getting them.>>

The key question you pose is "whence does that point of view have its source?"

That's the question I'm trying to answer for myself. Their behaviour is not consistent with traditional Islamic teachings.

The example of Amir Abdulkader is in stark contrast with the behaviour of those who allegedly were plotting violence on xmas day....as is their knowledge of Islam.

At this stage, I believe the answer can be found in the loss of voice and influence of the ulema during the colonial era and under the tyrants of the 20th century. When Muslims turned to Islam (as they have done in the past) for justice they found a host of doctrines which did not have their source in traditional Islam.

Merry Christmas

AL: I haven't read Mr. Duetsch's book, The Beginning of Infinity, so i cann't really comment

AL: "The entire discography of the Golden Era record label, particularly the Hilltop Hoods, is again superior, morally as well as rhythmically. "

I mainly listen, and attempt to sing, Islamic poems (eg. http://www.islamicedfoundation.com/material.htm). Different genre to Hilltop Hoods:

Allah

I tried to find Him on the Christian cross, but He
was not there; I went to the Temple of the
Hindus and to the old pagodas, but I could not
find a trace of Him anywhere.

I searched on the mountains and in the valleys
but neither in the heights nor in the depths was I
able to find Him. I went to the Ka'bah in Mecca,
but He was not there either.

I questioned the scholars and philosophers but
He was beyond their understanding.

I then looked into my heart and it was there
where He dwelled that I saw Him; He was
nowhere else to be found. (Rumi)

Merry Christmas to you as well.

AL, have you heard of Redgum?

One of my favourites: "I was only 19": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtiyp-G6jY

I used follow them and attended several live appearances usually at some country event or outer suburban oval.

grateful: One of my favourites: "I was only 19": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urtiyp-G6jY

Yes & I was there for the first time it was ever played in Public. The Welcome Home Parade in Sydney, 87.

A couple of things about the clip.

0.00 to 0.05 is 4 Section, 5 Platoon, B Coy, 1 R>A>R> emplaning Bien Hoa, at the Snake Pit. (Charlie Coy 1st Air Cav., Cobra's, Snoopy, Casper, Diamonds, Full Deck & a few others)
3.34 to 4.10 is a composite of 1 R.A.R. at Ben Cat 1, Ho Bo Woods & Silver City Operations. The Guy standing in the Tunnel is Bowtells. He died in a Tunnel later that day. In the original clip (missing from this one) on Silver City is Billy Coolabra (Aboriginal from Palm Island) sitting on a Tree Stump. That's my arm will see pulling him of the Stump & him grinning on the ground. We got ambushed cutting a hole in the Canopy to get the VC Rice, Flour, Salt & Peanuts out. We got hit again on the way back to our position but one of our guys hit a VC setting up a large Dish Claymore & it went off. The VC then took off.

The next night the VC hit that position from 10 at night until 5 next morning, but the Delta Coy, 2/503rd, Yanks, had taken over from us. Poor bastards. Two Congressional Medals of Honour were issued for that Fire Fight. I just glad it wasn't us

Rumi's answer to questions asked by a disciple -
What is Poison?
He replied with a beautiful answer - Anything which is more than our necessity is Poison. It may be Power, Wealth, Hunger, Ego, Greed, Laziness, Love, Ambition, Hate or anything

What is fear.....?
Non acceptance of uncertainty.
If we accept that uncertainty, it becomes adventure...!

What is envy ?
Non acceptance of good in others
If we accept that good, it becomes inspiration...!

What is Anger?
Non acceptance of things which are beyond our control.
If we accept, it becomes tolerance...!

What is hatred?
Non acceptance of person as he is.
If we accept person unconditionally, it becomes love...!

What is fear.....?
Non acceptance of uncertainty. If we accept that uncertainty, it becomes adventure...!

It's wise to know what to fear.

What is envy ?
Non acceptance of good in others. If we accept that good, it becomes inspiration...!

Everybody has their good side but if the bad side out weighs the good, be fearful.

What is Anger?
Non acceptance of things which are beyond our control. If we accept, it becomes tolerance...!

It is not good to tolerate bad things. Like Islam.

What is hatred?
Non acceptance of person as he is. If we accept person unconditionally, it becomes love...!

You can't accept any person whose sole aim is to; Convert, Demand payment to live or kill you. Hate is not involved.