Yvonne,

I probably live on the same planet as you do. I never said that Muslims, most Muslims, condone the actions of ISIS and suchlike. Of course, any Muslim that lives under ISIS or the Taliban or Boko Haram will probably not condemn those groups, for obviously reasons.

What I said is that Muslims will not condemn the actions of their dear prophet or the hate and violence in the Quran.

Now, grab a few of your Muslims people and ask about Mohammed's attacks on his neighbors. There is a list of about a hundred expeditions in Wikipedia, if you care to know more, in which Mohammed and his thugs attacked, looted, murdered, raped captives and enslaved men women and children. If you want to be more specific, ask about Asma bint Marwan, a nursing mother for offending Islam's prophet (even if what she said was mild) and her killing was approved by Mr. Mercy. There is also a case of a pregnant woman ripped open for the same reason.

Then there is the Quran.. Ask your friends if they believe nonMuslims are lower than animals or if they consider Allah a liar.

Good luck.

It is easy to condemn ISIS, but ISIS is not doing anything new. They do, in fact, point to the Quran and hadith as the source of their beliefs and actions. If the Quran is perfect, maybe your friends will explain how it is so easily misunderstood.

Please report back. Let all of us know how it goes.

Hint: if you take a single Muslim over to a far corner, by him/herself, you might get an admission that "yes, some things are really bad" or "I don't accept that". Other wise it will just be one silly excuse after the next. Muslims are not known for their deep understanding of simple concepts like right and wrong or that values must be applied consistently. Even simple facts like the daily news or reports on Islamic societies mean nothing to them. For Muslims, all that counts is belief, the rest is routine and rituals.

Bazz,

Yes, they might, there's probably something in the Koran which commands it. As long as it's not Jewish, or pork, or beetles.

But don't forget that ISIS now controls many very productive areas, from the Euphrates and Tigris River valleys and irrigated areas in between, across almost to the Mediterranean coast. With hundreds of thousands fleeing, if anything they will need to use slave-labor to harvest it all. Imagine the vast stores of food which hundreds of thousands of people leave behind as well. So finding food won't be one of their problems.

Cheers,

Joe

Loudmouth, yes your points are valid. However they have to make sure
that the population has food as well.
After all the towns they hold are meaningless if the people have all gone taking food with them.
This will ultimately be their undoing as they try to keep large towns operational.
They probably need helicopters to be able to knock over the trucks carrying food.
Might be why they are trying to get access to Turkey's NATO airports.

I am coming to the conclusion that the only solution lies in some form of isolation
of the moslem world.
We cannot keep coming back generation after generation to sort out their problems.
The rest of the world can isolate them in some way and tell them thats it, sort your selves
out and do not come near the rest of us.
Resources such as oil are a problem, but we could barter food for oil until their supply
declines to the point it no longer matters.

Many think the US is worried about middle east oil but they only take about 10% of their
imports from the Gulf. It is more important to Australia, it is in fact
crucial, we would be in very serious trouble with perhaps near 100% unemployment
if Middle East oil disappeared suddenly.

Let me elaborate on my understanding of the issue. There are two basic positions regarding Islam:

1. It is just another religion. It teaches peace. Muslims are mostly peaceful and any group that proclaims itself to be Islamic but promotes violence is not really following the dictates of Islam.
2. Islam is inherently flawed; with a propensity to discriminate and even encourage violence in certain situations. Muslims, even those that preach peace and tolerance, are either ignorant or in denial about the nature of their religion and cannot be trusted to support basic human rights because their values are different from those of “Western Civilization”.

The first is the position held by most Muslims and by our elites, particularly Obama. The second alternative is common but unfortunately not representative of those that make most of the important decisions that affect our lives. In this case, the war on ISIS and radical Islam is futile, because the problem is much serious, more immediate.

There is no middle ground.

If the first position is true, than the war on ISIS and radical Islam can be won. Also, by the same token, Muslim immigrants will eventually integrate and become, globally, a productive, peaceful, positive element in the fabric of a nation’s society. Let us all hold hands and sing kumbayah.

On the other hand, if the second position is correct, we are in deep trouble. I think I can reasonably argue position 2, based upon obvious facts (the Quran, hadith, early histories of Islam, conditions of Islamic societies, the evening news broadcasts, etc.).

So there it is….

Ahh Kactuz, you are an optimist I think.
Ask the Serbs, their homeland is now the first Islamic country in Europe.

Dear kactuz,

You mentioned two alternatives, then concluded: "There is no middle ground."

But there are other alternatives, including the one I brought forward on OLO (albeit not on this particular thread), in short:

* Islam is a package.
* This package includes a religion.
* The religion of Islam is peaceful.
* Other parts of the package are violent.
* Muhammad only taught the religion of Islam, but his followers bundled it in his name after his death (thus without his knowledge and consent) with their violent agenda. They also falsified the historical records, claiming that Muhammad was himself violent as they.
* Should the lovers of Muhammad find the truth, they will be quick to drop the package and embrace the original teachings of Muhammad alone.

Many do so already, but quietly. According to your second alternative, they are either ignorant or in denial - but what if they simply want to stay out of trouble? What if they claim to embrace the whole package only because they wisely prefer to live in the shade and not lose their life and limb in the hands of their extremist "brothers"?