dan/quote*,'Who are/those\losing/their faith?-There/are those/who are trying to hold\onto a vast age-evolutionary-account\in one side/of their brain,.and reconcile\that/with..a straight forward/Biblical account\in.the other side.>>

one cannot/seve/two masters
if/one\cannot\explain/your theory/its best/the\relate/whichever fable/they\most/simply\ascribe/TO

<<.The two...don't reconcile.>
i dont see/why-not/science\sees not difference
kids dont care/so what-is\belief*in god/or belief in\science/fools will..claim/equal/master\*/over both\arnt being honest

nar/the twain/be*met/but h\ere[in satans-realm]
OR..RATHER\THE MANIFESTATION/OF SATANS\..DELUSIONAL FEAR/RENATIONALISATION/AND COMFORTERS

<<<<.simultaneously believe \contradictory/sthing>

I MOSTLY*AVOID LYING/thus i\believe-most things/people\say they did/but..my former wife/well\she dont believe\much/so its/not much use/explaining\too much/indeed-anything.

<if the\modern evolutionists\are right,/then
the/ancient-Hebrew\writings are wrong.>>

0ver*-thin*King/its importancE
they\swallowed/the warm-bloOded/cold =BLOOD/fish../LOL\..becoming a wolf/*..then returning/to\the sea..to become*BALEENE*..whales[it just needs proper/telling-what\twaT/begot*wh0t?

lest-we\forget/the fallen angels/were\THOUGHT/TO-BE\imortal/thus death/isnt serious/to those energy cannot-ever\be destroyed/..[thing is-its clear/that/there were*many*lokies/crossbreeding[inbreeding] /with\the-genes/of\a sow/that\inbred/till/it made adam

[then adam..[Xy].the sterile hybred/]F1].wanted/what/the-beasts/got
[so/they\..took/out\*/the tiny[troublesome,'y'/..and doubled up..on the GOD-GENE/*\;XX'

but\then/his sister/begot/and\guess what/the apple thing..[over\5 ways under/mosaic\law/was eve able-to/be forgiven..

[ie man forgiving-foolishness]as brother/he could forgive/hIS\SISTER/AS FATHER/HE/CAN\FORGIVE/THE-DAUGHTER/AS HUSH-BAND/FORGIVES/WIFE\AS MAN/FORGIVES*/WOMAN's/foolishness/[

SATAN ASKS/EvE..WAS IT\GOD WHO-DIDST...FORBID
AND NO.[for/eve\it..was/adam.

[KNOW/the-one\who forbade/was*.adambe-.cause\he made*whole-thing up/..then hid/the proof[..thats why\woman alone\have/the gift of co-creation

</They stop believing/in the Word/of God>

my /beloved/grand-child...said/I DONT\BELIEVE\IN/GOD GRANDAD
I SAID..THATS OK DEAR/..HE WILL NEVER/STOP believing\in you

(I agree\with you/that it-is\unnecessary/who believes/what
if ya/cant prove-it\ya got\nuthin-but/faith..[BUT/IM NOT\STANDING BEFORE G*\/D..TO SAY/I didnt try/to tell ya)al/

<<.If..the ancients/are wrong\about their history>

so what/shakesA$pear/translates/..ditto many bible-themes
who\cares/its a body/ofthought/advice\peoms/law..so-what/i-luv-it.

<<,their writings\cannot hold/credibility\for faith/and morality>
[i was\a/bad dad]/my kids/are great/parents/THEY\didnt\learn-it/from me*

<<>=For/the Bible is a consistent whole...(it's/not dissonant)>

its complete/in...what it represents/FROM/HEAVENS/FERSION[INCLUDESMUCH/FROM\HELLS-VERSIONS.

but its/our interaction/with the/dead words/that\either/join the letters/or/the reality..[its-a\great-divination/device]

<</the New Testament\is dependent-upon the Old,>

of course/but\..thats the big-clue..[as-to..his miracles]
iE /THE RITUAL/OF\CLEAN-HANDS/and\fixety\HARSHNESS/of creed-RITUAL/rite/.\over the living-savior

who wasn't as\Aggressive/SLAYER/as predicted
[when jesus/knew\it wasjohn/or\how.joseph/is-a parental ideal[for/training-LEADERS.[get-em/yung/wink]

<<while-also/being a fulfilment\of the Old.>

ahhhh meneh

but/then again/jesus preceded.\many things/..with/..;....because it was/WRITTEN/prophesied.\[john the offspring/of two high priests/was to be the-one]

HE DID/HAVe/an\87/YEAR-OLD/MUM.
I LOVE/THE/TWO/JUXTAPOSED/THE-VIRGIN/THE AGED/HIGH-PRIESTESS/WHO WILL/GOD CHOOSE.

[FOOLED/EM-ALL*]
BOTH/GOT\ANGELS*.DAMM-caps.

Dear Dan,

I never implied for a moment as if you lost your faith.

I will stop here, not because I agree that the bible is a text-book about the material world, but because I am the last person to wish to disturb yours or anyone else's faith. I am very happy that by God's grace you follow the moral and spiritual guidance of the bible and even a hint that interpreting the bible from a different angle might remotely shake your faith is unpalatable for me. I could not forgive myself if you lost your faith because of me.

May God bless you, may the Holy Spirit continue to guide your steps by day and by night.

Dear Yuyutsu,
I'm sorry you want to leave the discussion at this point. It was you who said certain people lost their faith. I was merely asking who. Who is it that you're referring to? (I never thought you were referring to me.)

I like to come to OLO discussion forum to try and have robust discussion with intelligent people. I would hope that we could challenge and inspire each other to deeper thought and perhaps deeper faith. So I'm sorry you feel to leave. Maybe we're just mis-communicating or talking past each other. But I'd prefer if you'd address some of the concerns I've raised.

I see the Bible as making real propositional claims about real issues: a real God who relates to real people in their relevant times and places. For sure there is a spiritual component, but it doesn't concern nebulas ideas that dance around in your head. The Bible is a text that relates to the material world, our world, here and now. It has related to millions of people, inspiring conviction and faith for thousands of years.

I hope it is not too hot for you to handle.

Blessings,

Dear Dan,

When one bases one's faith on material or historical facts, one plays on the devil's (figure-of-speech) turf, where temptations and pitfalls abound.

Why should a counter-proof be allowed to shake one's faith?
Why should one jeopardise their eternal life for a morsel of fruit from the tree of knowledge?

Better stay on the straight and narrow. Better love God unconditionally and sing His praises: who cares how long it took to create this world? who cares whether it was even created? Are such physical/historical questions going to determine or have any impact on your relationship with God?

Yes, the bible inspired conviction and faith on millions of people for thousands of years, but conviction was merely a means in the service of faith, not an end by itself. In earlier periods, this method worked, allowing people to arrive at faith through this method of conviction. So long as it worked, so far so good, but we should realise that these were different times and today, due to the prevalence of modern science, conviction has become more of a burden instead of leading people to faith.

Peter Sellick suggests that in our era, the best method to attract people to God is music and art. He may be right and I also support whatever other methods help people to divert their attention from the world and turn it to God. I don't think that intellectual knowledge or understanding of facts is suitable for this age, which is already obsessed and saturated with facts. This was just a method, which suited past eras.

Please remember that we are not here in this world for the purpose of understanding how this world works - We are here to serve God!

TSU/QUOTE/.<<>.\,,<<..Why should..a counter-proof>>

misstransllation..[why should a counter evidence/or a balance-point
..<<..be allowed to shake one's faith?>>

some build on shakey/foundations[like mosus did miracles[yet tey built te golden calf/for child sacrifice/even in the desert[or a messiah says eat[with dirty hands/because its not what men/put into their mouths/that maketh/man;..unclean[but that which issues forth from it

lol like counter-statements/averments of act

<<Why should one jeopardise..their eternal life for a morsel of fruit from the tree of knowledge?..>>

we cant/all will taste the eternal fruits/some just want to touch all bases[whats the use rushing to perfection[if ya still want do do/a\little bit of sinning[especially once you find out sex is amasing/a true union/..but whats the rush/first into heaven/but what about the rest of gods creation/who reject/love/grace/mercy?

im plannen on spending lots of time;in hell
i see/this satanist material-mercahantilismc\s/realms
and/to be frank/id rather be in hell.

<<>>>>Better stay on the straight and narrow.>>

why/dont god love the repentant sinner[once we fgo/and sin no more/we still can fall from great height/not as great as satans/fall...[yet]

but we all shakll fakll/many times
like we fell short in the past/like peter.

<<..Better love God unconditionally>>
god/never said that
infact..<<..and sing His praises:>>

he is PARTICULARILLY FED UP WITH/the useless begging whining about demon-central[israel]..pathetic/our begging made god sick/its like dennis the menis[except god would never say what i say/he is just that way/joy in your hear/sings to god without uttering a word/he loves passion/cm-passion..contented satisfaction

<<>.who cares how long it took to create this world?>>

if god himself told/me..i would still ask for a little proof/too
but 5 days or 6 stages who cares[the important/thing..is darkness/preceeds the dawns/light[our/de-light]

<<>.who cares whether it was even created?>>

satans fall created/it/but..your right/who cares
wether/its created/it looks random/till you find the logus/logic.[sic*]

nothing/ha/ any impact on your relationship*..with God?\
he/is our father/we are his children[our relationship/with;our wholly father/is-one/to\one-[the personal omnipresent/good.of\grace/and]mercy[infinite/omnipresent]..loveradiating light/that life lead logicly/to learn/to\love..life/in\the/light.

<<>>We are here/to serve God!>>

no/we/are\serfved/as we de-seved/by\the living good..[god]
who/leads-you.must/serve\or/de-serve/u.

.

Dear Yuyutsu,

.

You wrote :

« When one bases one's faith on material or historical facts, one plays on the devil's (figure-of-speech) turf, where temptations and pitfalls abound. »

Speaking of the devil :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-makes-exorcisms-official-catholic-practice-as-demonfighting-priests-recognised-under-canon-law-9580727.html
.

You advise :

« Better love God unconditionally and sing His praises … We are here to serve God ! »

Is God so badly in need of love and affection ? Is that why he created us ? Are you suggesting that he wants us to be his consenting slaves, to love and serve him ? Why do you wish to fashion our “relationship with God” in such a sado-masochistic manner ?

Is this not simply a projection of your own anima on the symbolical God of your desires ?
.

You ask :

« Why should one jeopardise their eternal life for a morsel of fruit from the tree of knowledge? »

Because it is better to “know” if there is such a thing as eternal life than to simply “believe” there is one, without question. To accept to live under the illusion of false beliefs is the triumph of treason, cowardice and deceit. There is greater virtue in seeking to understand reality than in projecting our beliefs on it.

Nature has endowed us with a critical mind, the ability to distinguish right from wrong. We should put it to good use. Gullibility exposes us to false belief. It is dangerous. Curiosity (the desire to know and learn) opens our minds to a greater understanding of reality ("that which exists independently of ideas concerning it").
.

You add :

« … the bible inspired conviction and faith … »
.

The bible is an anthology of selected writings of various authors, forming the Old Testament (the Hebrew bible) and the New Testament 94% of which was written by Saul of Tarsus (a tent maker) and his associate, Luc, a medical practitioner.

.

(Continued ...)

.