"Regarding St Josemaria and Opus Dei, in order to make an informed judgment, I recommend you meet some members. I know about half of the members who live in Sydney, and it would be no trouble to give you an address or phone number..." Posted by Jose, Thursday, 27 October 2005 1:42:38 PM (Thread: "Is the Pope Catholic?")
Jumping to conclusions; (I am a uni student living at home with my parents and brother and sister).

R0bert,
"some cling desperately to a superior being who can take responsibility from them for their choices."
I feel pity for these people more than you do.

A question for anyone,
Is the notion that <a child acquires the right to live at birth> subjective opinion?

I have been away for a while and have not read this entire thread. I apologise therefore if my comments have been covered elsewhere.

Hopefully it would be correct to say that, regardless of one's views on abortion, the fewer [that are considered necessary] the better. We often hear that unwanted pregnancies are less common in countries with more relaxed attitudes to sexuality and nudity. I have searched around and found the following:
http://www.clothesfree.com/pregnancy.html

I realise that there are exceptions, but I am inclined to think that many of those who [on religious grounds] are opposed to abortion, are also opposed to such things as being open about sexuality information and having easy access to legal clothes optional swimming areas, things which are more openly accepted in many European countries.

In other words, they are opposed to abortion but are also opposed to what could be likely ways to lessen the demand for abortion.

Jose - A question for anyone,
Is the notion that <a child acquires the right to live at birth> subjective opinion?

Abortion does not apply to those born, so this question has no real significance here. A child born is beyond the point at which abortion can be performed, by definition of what abortion is.

Changing the topic to what was possibly intended.

Does an embryo / fetus acquire an automatic right to develop to the point where birth occurs?

Answer

No more than a child acquires the right to be born to Rich Parents or be born "normal" with all their faculties.

The process of gestation and birth are natural processes, with some incidence of abnormality (imperfection); the creation / development of a new life is not a perfect process.
Random chance results in a range of defects and abnormalities. The degree of abnormality will determine the life quality and the dependency on others of that new life through its life.

Accepting responsibility for the dependency of the abnormal is a huge burden to place on anyone. Should a pregnancy go wrong and development turn abnormal, it is reaasonable to allow the mother carrying the "abnormal" to decide whether she is up to carrying the likely burden of the childs dependency for the rest of her life (and possibly beyond).

Living or not is a bit like a lottery - we all deserve to win - but not all do.

Answer these questions:

I refer to this article:

Pro-life groups given pregnancy counselling funds
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1498231.htm

Question 1: As there is 27 times more chance of a woman dying during pregnancy and/or childbirth than that of either surgical abortion or taking an abortion pill (RU486), will the Commonwealth accept liability and provide compensation to a family in the event of death during pregnancy and/or childbirth in the event that counselling being funded by the Commonwealth, designed to discourage women from having abortions, results in a woman deciding to continue with the pregnancy and finding herself among the following statistics:

Report on Maternal Deaths in Australia, 1994-96
http://www.npsu.unsw.edu.au/mda9496preface.htm

“There were 90 maternal deaths in the triennium 1997-99, and there were 758,030 confinements, indicating one maternal death per 8,423 confinements.

Question 2: Will the Commonwealth accept liability and provide compensation in the event a woman regrets her decision to continue with the pregnancy and suffers hardships or depression in life as a result of counselling which may have deterred her from going ahead with an abortion? I refer to this report and expect that the women in Australia would be affected the same way:

Abortion cuts risk of later blues
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17070446%255E23289,00.html
“PROCEEDING with an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy is more likely to cause depression than having an abortion, a controversial new study has found. Researchers in the US questioned 1247 women who aborted or delivered an unwanted first pregnancy between 1970 and 1992. The women were interviewed over several years. The study, published in the British Medical Journal, found that going ahead with an unwanted pregnancy was more likely to lead to depression. “

Felix

This issue stems back from the early 1980s and continues today:

ABORTION PILL, OR SOMETHING MORE? THE FIRESTORM OVER THE ABORTION DRUG RU-486 HAS HAMPERED U.S. SCIENTISTS WHO WOULD TEST IT TO FIGHT CANCER AND OTHER CONDITIONS. NORFOLK SCIENTIST GARY D. HODGEN HOPES TO SEE MAJOR STUDIES ON RU-486 ONCE THE FDA APPROVES IT.
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1996/vp960811/08110065.htm

RU-486 Explained
by Heather Guidone
http://www.insiderreports.com/storypage.asp_Q_ChanID_E_HQ_A_StoryID_E_20001536

Comments?

Wow, great posts everyone, life and a computer virus has left me off line, but great to finally read commentary that's relevant to the current debate and open and honest re a very important issue. Amazing what one can achieve without the timkins who, may have finally got the message that the particular horse he is flogging may not be Makybe Diva. And bad Leonard Cohen to boot.