Dear david f,

Thanks for an interesting look at these things from a Jewish cultural perspective. You obviously know more about Christianity than I about Judaism. Like you, I cherish memories of my grandmother. My mother had a stroke when I was nine, and the next three years she was not much of herself any more. So the “yin” (female) part of my education came from my grandmother. She was complementing the “intellectual” part of my education provided by my father, her son. So perhaps she is responsible for my fondness of the yin-yang complementarity.

>>Mother Teresa admitted that she doubted God’s existence.<<

You are referring to her "confessions" written to her superiors, published in 2007. She had hoped that these very private admissions and requested that they be destroyed, but in the process of her nomination for canonization for sainthood they have come to light. I do not know of any quote from that book that would contain the word “existence”. (After all, if she stopped believing in God’s existence, why did she reveal this to her confessors and not to some atheist organisation who would certainly love it). What she probably describes is known as “dark night of the soul,” a period of a feeling of abandonment and inability to pray, common with many Christian mystics (and I suspect also mystics of other religions). St. John of the Cross is a standard example. It is a crisis of faith, not a conversion to atheism.

My practically only acquaintance with Hassidism is through the existentialist thinker Martin Buber, author of the acclaimed also by Christians book “I and Thou”. The story about rabbi Eisik in his “Hassidische Bücher” (http://learningtogive.org/resources/folktales/Treasure.asp) has a moral that can be applied to many situations. (During my 11 years in Prague I crossed many times the 14th century Charles bridge mentioned in the story).

You did not answer my question whether it follows from those articles that 80% of American Jews, if asked in a survey “Do you believe in God, YES or NO?”, would have ticked YES.

AJ Philips,

>>if you are going to allege that others display naivety in their criticisms,<<

I never alleged that you (or anybody on this OLO) display naivety; there are just naive or simplified answers to complicated questions of philosophy (of science or religion).

I really don’t see any point in continuing this game of “correcting”, or having corrected, worldview assumptions or interpretations.

from/davids-poem
http://www.celestinevision.com/celestine/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15108#15108

AWAY..<<..From..too much..love of living,
From=..hope..and fear..set free.>>

see..what..the imagery..is saying

i want..to be dead?
because..i love..living too much?

and..am only dying..to stop..my fear..of death?
and escape.. the..[false-hope]..of life_*eternal

<<..We thank..with..{but}..brief..thanksgiving..Whatever..gods may be..>>

is clearly..from..a conflicted soul
[you dont..get to say..thanks..death comes..too fast]
and..upon realization..your not..*really dead..god too..becomes suddenly..very real

and..as for.."what-ever..gods may be"..
thats for us..to find..or reject..but..
at best..we can..only..reject..*a con-cept..of mind..or heart

derived..from..'other'..
who..knew less..than you

quote..<<..That no life lives for ever ..>>

how many..lives..have you lived..
just in..your..*one lifetime..so/far?

yes..the life..of my..childhood..has died
my..marriage died..the life..we had...has died

but..here i am..not dead..
now what?

listen..to..the lies..illusion..delusion
of*..those long dead..?..[as read..in dead/words..in deader books?]

<<..That dead men..rise up?>>

never?;..THOSE..complicite/LIARS..ARE GOnE..
YET THEIR LIES..HAVE no DEATH..l;ieslive on..
IN THEM...THEY *STILL..only injuury..their OWN*..
[as lost..in them..in who..dead-words..have found..their home

their/gone..but
their..deceptions/err5ors..still..live on

but..even..the biggest lie
needs..a thin/cover..of truth

<<..That..even..the weariest_river
Winds..somewhere*..[eventually]..safe to sea.

but..NOT..TO REST..
not..to stop..being water

[SEE HOW...HER BOSOM..sea..YET HEAVES]
BUT TO..RE-UNITE WITH..ITS EQUAL/FELLOW/PEERS..

the*BROTHER-hood..of WATER-DROPS..
FINALLY ]*..UNITED TOGETHER..AS ONE..body?

atonment..sea
[at-one-meant]see?

<<..Then..no/star..nor sun..shall waken>>,
FOR RAIN-DROPS..DONT AWAKEN..[THEY CHANGE STATE]
BACK INTO..THE MIST..THEY FLEW..*

TO RETURN AS DEW

[no change..of their..being water..
just..a change of state..like..we..all will..do]

<<Nor any..change..of light>>.nor darkness
:..CAN AWAKEN..ITS EVENTUAL FALL

<<.Nor sound of..waters shaken>>.
neither..BUBBLED/FROTHED..NOR..FROZEN..
IN TIME...all RAIN..*WILL RETURN..BACK TO..THE SEa..SEE?

WATER..
FEELS NO PAIN
Nor HEARS..<<any sound..or sight>>:

Nor KNOWS..<<..THE wintry..leaves rustle
..nor..the vernal,>>..de-light

<<Nor..days
nor..things..diurnal>>;..
CAUSE..WHAT-ever..WATER..doth..DO..even..a urinal*
THIS..ist NORMAL..[quite normal]..FOR WATER TO DO..FALL..clean

FALL..EVER LOWER*..
surrender*..to..gravities power

FALL..FROM THE HEAVENS..a passive..yet dynamic force

FALL..INTO..companionship..THE RIVER..
together..FALL DOWN..THE WATERFALL

FALL..FALL..FALL..fall..thats all
THAT..iS WHAT..WATER DOES..TILL..THAT BRIEF UPLIFT
THEN ITS..BACK TO...just BEING THE WATER..THATS ALL

WATCH..THE WATER FALL
LIKE..DROPS OF SWEAT..OR..trouble/BUBBLES OF fEW

WATER*..KEEPS ON FALLING
UNLIKE ME..AND YOU

WE..*CHOSE WHETHER..WE FALL..OR RISE
EVEN*..AFTER DEATH..BUT..forget where..WE come FROM..

like..waters/FALLING..away..or TO?

<<..Only..the sleep eternal
In..an eternal night.>>

eternal*..light..
eternal..de-light..

where..*is your..eternal..internal?

ITS..POETIC PATHETIC
I LEAVE IT..AT THAT

HERE..IS WHAT MADE ME FALL
FIRST..IT BROKE ME..THEN MADE..MY CRY
NOW IM LEFT WONDERING..

[YOU..JUST READ..THE FRUIT..of my guides]
dare i..let you..think a lie.;.watch you not really die..i cant stop it..why even try..

good bye

.

To poets all,

.

LET us cease our idle chatter,
Let the tears bedew our cheek,
For a man from Tallangatta
Has been missing for a week.

Where the roaring flooded Murray
Covered all the lower land,
There he started in a hurry,
With a bottle in his hand.

And his fate is hid for ever,
But the public seem to think
That he slumbered by the river,
’Neath the influence of drink.

And they scarcely seem to wonder
That the river, wide and deep,
Never woke him with its thunder,
Never stirred him in his sleep.

As the crashing logs came sweeping,
And their tumult filled the air,
Then M’Ginnis murmured, sleeping,
“’Tis a wake in ould Kildare.”

So the river rose and found him
Sleeping softly by the stream,
And the cruel waters drowned him
Ere he wakened from his dream.

And the blossom-tufted wattle,
Blooming brightly on the lea,
Saw M’Ginnis and the bottle
Going drifting out to sea.

.

if blunt-stones..had sharp-tongues

God permeates..the whole uni-verse.
His truth is revealed to every-one.
you can only..seek Him in yourself,
You and He..aren't apart-you're one.

Here on earth..we must live upright.
The other world..lies beyond sight.
Exile is torment,..pain, and blight.
No one comes back..once he is gone.

Come,..let us all be one..for once,
Let us..make life easy on all of us,
Let us..love others and loved ones,
The earth.shall be left to every-one.

To you,..what Yunus says is clear,
Its meaning is..in your heart's ear:
We should all live..the good life hear,

Because no one body will live on..and on
thus we live in it..till we..have earned..a new one

I am..was before,..
I am..will be..after –

The one..sans soul..for all..souls all the means of the way.

I made..the ground..flat where it lies,
On it..I had those mountains rise,

I designed..the vault of the skies,
For I hold..all things..yet some denies.



To countless lovers
I have been..A guide..for faith..in each other
and religion...they know of me..via love of each-other

I am sacrilege..in man's atheist hearts
as for theist..why must they*..keep us apart?


I make men..
make men..love peace

and unite;..Putting down..the black words..upon the white,

It's not Yunus..who says all this:
love speaks..its own realities:
then some say..To doubt this
would justly be blasphemous:

"I'm before-I'm after,"

I say

Knowledge should mean..a full grasp..wel taught..well earned
Knowledge means to know yourself..knowledge:heart and soul.

If you..have failed..to understand yourself,
of your reading..enthralled..Then all..has missed its call.

What..the purpose..of reading those books?
So that Man..can know the All-Powerful.
If you have read,..but failed to understand,
Then your efforts..are justly..a barren soil.

Don't boast..of reading,..of mastering the science..of man
Or of all..your prayers and obeisance..mere plans..of mere men.

If you..identify Man as Good,..or men without god
All your learning..is of no use at all.

The true meaning..of the four holy books
Is found..in the alphabet's first letter.
You talk about that first letter,..preacher;
What is the meaning..of that-@..could you tell?

Yunus Emre..says to you,..oh/pharisee,
Make..the holy pilgrimage..if..this..your..need be

but..if you..ask me,
The visit..to a heart..thats true..is best of..all.

Your love..has wrested me..away..from he,
You're..the one I need,..you are..the one.I save.
Day..and night..i yearn..I burn,..gripped..by agronomy,
You're..the one I need,..you're the one..the brave.

I..find no..great joy..in simply..being alive,
If..I cease to exist,..I would not..grieve,
The..only solace I have..is your presence
You're..the one..I need,the one.I crave.

Lovers...yearn for you,
but haters..your love..stays them,
At..the bottom..of the sea.it lays..with them,

life has..God's images-natures nurture..displays them;

Let me drink..thy waters..of love..sip by sip,drip..by drip
Day and night,..dasrk or bright..my care from you..holds me..in its grace,

You're the one..without need,
you're..the one..beyond the grave.

Even if,..at..the end,..they make me lie
And..scatter..my hashes..hush-up..the shy,
My bit..would be..to break...into this outcry:
You're..the one we need,..you're the one I crave.

Each..passing day..thee fan..and rouses..my flame,
What..I desire..of both thy..worlds..in the same:

You're the one..that gives..
to..the brave...and enslaved..be free

In case..my Friend..does not return..to see,
Then..let me return..to the Friend's..embrace;
face..to..face

I'm willing..to suffer though..pain and torture
if..that is how..I can see..the Friend's face.
but..A handful..of dust..was my stock..in trade,

And love..took even that..away from me:
Now I have..that beyond capital

What use..is going..
to the market place..or shop.?

But..my heart cringes,..my sins are countless;
Humbly..I must go implore..the Friend's grace.


My heart..declares:..“The Friend..belongs to he."
My eye..declares:..“The Fiend..belongs to me."
My heart urges..my eye..to have patience,

learning..to receive news,
to keep pace...as well as..place
We must accept..those who have looked..
4 God..As a..sharing..God's love,..as one..and the same.

a person..has received..the blessing
Of God's vision,..sans derision..he is..beyond dis-grace.

Hear me out,.my dear friends,
Love..resembles..the sun.
The heart..that feels of love
Is for..the love..of everyone

none other..than stone.
What..can grow..on stone hearts?
indeed wehat could be sown.
Though the tongue..softly up-starts,

Words..of venom fume..into our soul
so doth..rage,And..then cometh karma..turn into war..soon.

When..of love,..the soul burns,
Melts..like wax..as it churns.
Stone hearts..are like winter—
Dark,..harsh,..with all warmth gone.

but for..the love..of Yunus,..
soon leave's..such fears..further behind,

Drive all..end/scare's..out of..your mind.
Love...is what one..must first find:

every-One’s..a mystic..now..and..from then on

thanks2
http://www.yunusemre.gov.tr/index.php/en/poems